Restoring vintage sets, question regarding replacing bricks.

[naf]

I'm currently in the process of piecing together my old childhood sets. All of my Lego was stored in a big plastic bins, which kept them in fairly good condition but finding parts was akin to a needle in a haystack. I took the time to sort everything by color, separate the minifigure parts, etc. At this point I have most of my space sets together, which include Classic Space, Futuron, Blacktron, and a few small M-Tron and Ice Planet sets.

The sets that are in the roughest shape or the older ones, since I was younger, played rougher, etc. Either some parts are missing, or the bricks are heavily chewed or scratched (when you're 5, teeth are a perfectly viable option for separating small 1x2 plates ). I ordered some replacements from bricklink, and have noticed that they're a bit different in terms of the mold. The picture below illustrates this. The posts that click between the studs are hollow on the blue brick. There may be other differences but I haven't noticed. I'm sure this isn't new to some of you brick veterans, but I didn't realize that there were different molds for bricks. All of mine look like the white one, and I stopped collecting around 1990.

My question is, does it really matter if replacement bricks are of the newer mold? I'm not planning on selling these sets any time soon, but if I do down the road I want to know if I should go through the effort now to collect the right type of brick. The bricks I need to replace are pretty standard, nothing rare. Mostly plate bricks since they were hard to separate and were pried off with teeth and whatever other objects were at hand. Is there a way to guarantee a certain type of brick with buying from bricklink, other than contacting each individual seller? Maybe a store that specializes in vintage bricks? Am I being entirely too anal???

Thanks in advance!

[Darth Dino]

Hi

there is a nice topic in the SCiFi Forum. Rufus did there a great job restoring his classic beaties. It is worth to have a look there.

Dino

[naf]

I saw that thread, which was my inspiration for digging out and restoring my old Lego

He didn't really cover this topic though. He mentioned that he had to replace some bricks, and at times used newer bricks. My question is about how this would be seen to collectors down the road (most of the bricks that need replacing are pretty standard, so I wouldn't think it would affect things too much), and if anyone knows of a way to buy bricks that use older molds. Bricklink seems to be a crapshoot.

I didn't put this in the space forum because I'm restoring several themes like castle, town, technic, etc. I just happened to start with space.

[MikroMan]

I think that to most people the mold version won't really matter if the changes are on the inside/downside. The molds were changed mostly due to factories changing the composition of plastic, economical use of material in modling process, clutch power of pieces...

The problem with certain parts on BL is that only a few of them have separate part numbers for older molds (ex: tiles with/without groove). The easiest way to verify the version will be, as you said, to contact the sellers.

I suggest you try searching BL by store name with term ''vintage''. I know I've seen a couple of stores selling exclusively old vintage parts. Used' obviously, but in good condition.

Edited June 12, 2013 by MikroMan

[LEGO Historian]

Thanks for starting this thread, and for posting the link to Rufus's thread. As someone who's been a LEGO collector for decades (I came out of my Dark Ages in 1979, when Classic Space got started)... I'm somewhat of an expert on old parts molds, although I'm better versed on LEGO sets...

But here's some general tips on old LEGO parts from the 1970s and 1980s...

1) bricks had molding pips on the side of the brick during the 1970s, and up until about 1983. The switch to molding pips on the studs started in the mid to late 1970s, and completed about 1984. So you will find many sets with a combination of parts with molding pips in either place. For example... the 375/6075 Yellow Castle set.... the molding pips were on the side of the brick for the 1x1 and 1x2 bricks, but mostly on the studs for the 1x3 and 1x4 bricks. Also the 2x2, 2x3 and 2x4 bricks had both locations for the bricks. For the arches... the 1x4 had the pip on the studs... the 1x2x6 and 1x2x8 arches had the pips on the sides. So many of the 70s/80s sets had the pips in both locations.

2) the 2x3 and 2x4 bricks had no cross supports underneath back in the 70s/80s... although there were a few exceptions (such as a trial mold with the parts released).

3) Trans-clear bricks were much "foggier" than new trans clear parts back in the 70s/80s. This is especially true for the windshields and windscreen parts... even in mint.

4) those early classic Minifigs with the the satellite image imprinted on the torso... the gold had a tendency to fade...even on unused mint figs. This was also true for the early castle figs where the stickers faded. Not sure if this is an ultraviolet light problem, or other environmental issues.

___________

Also... when cleaning old parts... using a soft tipped old toothbrush works wonders... especially between the studs... I wet the bricks/baseplates... then use liquid hand soap and go in horizontal and vertical directions... as well as diagonally. Then wash them off, and first towel dry... and then fan dry them (so there's no water spots).

Some folks have used Brasso for their trans parts. I haven't tried it yet... but understand that it helps eliminate large scratches on the trans bricks and parts... although it leaves very small scratchs (that can only be seen on close inspections)... but it gets rid of the major blemishes.

Hope this helps!

[naf]

Wow, there's more to these bricks than I thought, that's some great info. Thanks LEGO Historian! Also, thanks for the toothbrush tip. I soaked my parts in water and dishsoap overnight, but there's still crud in between some of the studs.

[1974]

I've been on a huge space/castle trip recently and bought a lot of classics .. I much rather prefer good looking bricks than the 'right' ones. I've managed to pick up some nice stuff with boxes. Boxes, for those sets, are luvly - and important - to me. They provide really nice pics of alternative builds and it's just so much fun to open a 'new' set than to open a bag of various pieces

So, no, I wouldn't fret over a 1x6 plate not being the right one. I just want a good one

I've done the oxy treatment on some bricks, but only if they're rare/important. Discoloured bricks I just through out

Beware though, the gold on spacemen/bricks do NOT like the oxy! Printed castle bricks seem to survive

[LEGO Historian]

One last tip Naf... that's for road plates. I would not use a toothbrush on the roadway surfaces... especially the roadmarkings. Instead I use a very wet (water) paper towel... and put a generous helping of liquid soap onto that. Then rub it firmly on the road surface... with a more gentle pressure on the road markings... and then rinse... this process may need to be repeated before you dry...

Edited June 13, 2013 by LEGO Historian

[naf]

Thanks for the tip on the roads, I have a pile that could use a good cleaning. I was also unaware that oxy clean took off the gold from the classic space logos. I retr0brighted a bunch of my white Lego, but kept out anything with a space logo just in case. Glad I did since oxyclean is a part of that mixture.

[DPrime]

Oh, so glad to see I'm not the only one with this problem! I actually posted this question in the Classic Space Restoration Project thread, but I guess I should have done a search first. :)

First off, I think I'm on the same page as you, naf, regarding the desire to have "original" bricks. I don't plan on selling mine either, but the collector/purist in me wants these to be as original as possible. Just how I am, I guess. :)

I've gotten a number of Classic Space sets recently and have started noticing the differences. Some of them are pretty well-known and easy to learn (solid stud cones, 4x4x2 cones without axle holes, etc.) but I've noticed some very slight differences (especially on 1x1 bricks) regarding the Lego logo, and different variations on the cross supports on old 1x6 bricks.Anyone know the time period/CS sets these variations belong to?Also, anyone know how to tell the difference between old 1x1 trans-red/green/yellow round bricks, and new ones? The trans-green ones seem particular prone to shattering and I need a number of replacements (actually, I might end up just using new ones for the sets but keeping a number of originals just for completion's sake).And one other thing... I think I may have a couple really old (for me that means pre-Classic Space, lol) 1x1 bricks. I'm not really sure how to describe it best, and unfortunately I don't have a camera on me currently, but it's almost a "cuter" Logo... Am I right thinking these are earlier?

Thanks for starting this thread, and for posting the link to Rufus's thread. As someone who's been a LEGO collector for decades (I came out of my Dark Ages in 1979, when Classic Space got started)... I'm somewhat of an expert on old parts molds, although I'm better versed on LEGO sets...

But here's some general tips on old LEGO parts from the 1970s and 1980s...

1) bricks had molding pips on the side of the brick during the 1970s, and up until about 1983. The switch to molding pips on the studs started in the mid to late 1970s, and completed about 1984. So you will find many sets with a combination of parts with molding pips in either place. For example... the 375/6075 Yellow Castle set.... the molding pips were on the side of the brick for the 1x1 and 1x2 bricks, but mostly on the studs for the 1x3 and 1x4 bricks. Also the 2x2, 2x3 and 2x4 bricks had both locations for the bricks. For the arches... the 1x4 had the pip on the studs... the 1x2x6 and 1x2x8 arches had the pips on the sides. So many of the 70s/80s sets had the pips in both locations.

2) the 2x3 and 2x4 bricks had no cross supports underneath back in the 70s/80s... although there were a few exceptions (such as a trial mold with the parts released).

3) Trans-clear bricks were much "foggier" than new trans clear parts back in the 70s/80s. This is especially true for the windshields and windscreen parts... even in mint.

4) those early classic Minifigs with the the satellite image imprinted on the torso... the gold had a tendency to fade...even on unused mint figs. This was also true for the early castle figs where the stickers faded. Not sure if this is an ultraviolet light problem, or other environmental issues.

___________

Also... when cleaning old parts... using a soft tipped old toothbrush works wonders... especially between the studs... I wet the bricks/baseplates... then use liquid hand soap and go in horizontal and vertical directions... as well as diagonally. Then wash them off, and first towel dry... and then fan dry them (so there's no water spots).

Some folks have used Brasso for their trans parts. I haven't tried it yet... but understand that it helps eliminate large scratches on the trans bricks and parts... although it leaves very small scratchs (that can only be seen on close inspections)... but it gets rid of the major blemishes.

Hope this helps!

GREAT info here! Thanks!!!I use oxy to clean it as well, but I've never had a problem with even the gold parts... mind you, anything printed I usually just give a quick dip and rinse, so it doesn't have a chance to wear off. ;)

The rest I soak for anywhere from a few hours to a full day/night. Never had any problems... so far.

Edited July 19, 2013 by DPrime

[naf]

I ended up just using the best looking bricks I could find, and stopped paying attention to the specific molds. My Black Seas Barracuda had never been taken apart since the first day I built it, it was even stored completely assembled so I knew it had all of it's original parts. I took it apart so that I could clean the bricks as they were really dusty and dirty. I noticed that some of the plates had solid anti-studs, some had hallow, and some other small differences in bricks, and this is all from the same set and era. I'm sure that when Lego decides to change a mold, they still use up their existing stock of parts, and sets can get a variety of molds making it next to impossible to tell exactly what type of part went in a specific set.

[DPrime]

I ended up just using the best looking bricks I could find, and stopped paying attention to the specific molds. My Black Seas Barracuda had never been taken apart since the first day I built it, it was even stored completely assembled so I knew it had all of it's original parts. I took it apart so that I could clean the bricks as they were really dusty and dirty. I noticed that some of the plates had solid anti-studs, some had hallow, and some other small differences in bricks, and this is all from the same set and era. I'm sure that when Lego decides to change a mold, they still use up their existing stock of parts, and sets can get a variety of molds making it next to impossible to tell exactly what type of part went in a specific set.

True, but its still worth knowing broad "eras" of parts, I think. Partly the reason why I'm interested in knowing when sets were discontinued as well as the year they were released.

[splatman]

The differences, such as the solid vs. hallow tubes, are likely due to molds simply being replaced as they wore out, wearing out at different rates, and so new molds being used alongside old ones, resulting in a variety of mold variation.

[DPrime]

I ended up just using the best looking bricks I could find, and stopped paying attention to the specific molds. My Black Seas Barracuda had never been taken apart since the first day I built it, it was even stored completely assembled so I knew it had all of it's original parts. I took it apart so that I could clean the bricks as they were really dusty and dirty. I noticed that some of the plates had solid anti-studs, some had hallow, and some other small differences in bricks, and this is all from the same set and era. I'm sure that when Lego decides to change a mold, they still use up their existing stock of parts, and sets can get a variety of molds making it next to impossible to tell exactly what type of part went in a specific set.

Quick question - was this variation even in the same kind of plates and brick? Just thinking about what Historian said about his yellow castle...

[naf]

Quick question - was this variation even in the same kind of plates and brick? Just thinking about what Historian said about his yellow castle...

All of the bricks of the same color seemed to come from the same mold. For example, all of the yellow plates had hollow antistuds, the rest had solid.

[LEGO Historian]

One of the greatest mold anomalies was the introduction of the post bottom molds for 1x bricks. From 1955-64 the old 1x6 and 1x8 bricks only had cross supports (and 1x2 bricks were hollow bottom). Then in 1964 TLG switched over to the post bottom molds for 1x6 and 1x8, added a post to the 1x2, and introduced the 1x4 (only with posts).

Here is a LEGO image from the 1972 USA Samsonite catalog (notice the barrel organ pulled by the horses). The 1x6 and 1x8 bricks still show the old hollow bottom 1x6 and 1x8 bricks with cross-supports. The likely reason for this as late as 1972 is that TLG sent Samsonite their old molds, and Europe/Australia started with the new post bottom 1x6 and 1x8 bricks in 1964.

USA/Canada plates (2x8, 4x8, 6x8 and 4x8 curved) of the 1960s are mostly of the waffle bottom variety. In Europe/Australia, they switched to circle bottom plates in those sizes as early as 1962 (to match the new 2x2, 2x3, 2x4 plates from the Architectural Sets 750, 751, 752). A 6x8 waffle bottom plate weights 12 grams.. a 6x8 circle bottom plate weighs 9 grams. So TLG was saving significant amounts of plastic by the quick switch over. So again... Samsonite got the old molds, and some waffle bottom molds were found in Samsonite sets as late as 1972. Often old and new molds can be found mixed in the same sets.

So there are so many anomalies to dating molds, that it almost becomes impossible to get things 100% accurate.

Just look at the switch from old gray to new gray bricks/parts. The switchover took many years to complete (once the inventory of old gray was finally completed). So it's easier to say when new gray (bley) was introduced, than to say when old gray was discontinued!

[Carrera124]

Imho, Lego is a system toy. So I don't mind if a vintage set contains some newer parts. Of course, not too much. I guess my limit is somewhat around 5% - 10%.

Of course, the color should be the same. Replacing oldgray parts by newgray ones, this won't fit (I don't mind the existence of newgray in general, but sets until 2004 should contain the old color and sets from 2004 should consist of the newer parts).

[DPrime]

Slowly getting the hang of figuring out which molds go where... I recently got a hold of my old original Lego collection - mainly Classic Space. It's all mixed up, but it's helped me figure out a few things. (Plus, I think I can complete at least one or two of my original sets!!!)

Anyway, I do know that my sets dated from about '79 (Beta-1 Command Base) and even earlier (some of the pre-minifig people sets) to about '84 or '85... All the 1x2 bricks have the molding mark on the side, not the top. So I guess I've got some replacing to do... I had obtained a vintage Intergalactic Command Base (6971) a while back and all the 1x2s had the mold mark on the stud. I suppose they could have been replacements but they looked and felt vintage so that seems to coincide with Historian's statement above. However, I had one of these sets as a kid too, and there isn't a 1x2 brick to be found with the mold mark on the top - they're all on the side.

Mind you, I got mine in Canada, whereas this one I recently obtained was from Europe (the Netherlands, to be specific) - I traded a GI Joe figure for it along with a Walking Astro Grappler and Galaxy Commander. :)

Anyway, just some food for thought, I guess, but I do have a couple of questions (probably for Lego Historian specifically, but anyone really, if they know the answers):

1. I got an old Alpha-1 Rocket Base a few months back - the long 4x12 blue plate was broken, but had the "pat pending" mark on the underside. Was this correct for its time? I was told (when getting a replacement piece) that it was an earlier piece, and that sets that late wouldn't have had that, typically.

2. I've noticed some (very minor) mold variations with the 1x4 trans-yellow bricks - any advice on which are the earlier versions?

3. The "vintage squeak" old Lego pieces make when attaching them to other pieces - were they always like that? I guess my question is, is that a result of age, or design? If design, around when did that stop?

Edited August 22, 2013 by DPrime