AFA Toy Grader

[Bilbo Baggins]

Today over another topic I read about a 2007 LEGO Millenium Falcon 10719 that was priced on US $12,500 So I decided to take a look. It appeared that this was graded 9.25 out of 10 on a toy page that graded toys, it was the highest grade ever achieved by this set. I was surprised to see there was a company that graded toys and LEGO sets, so I decided to browse on the internet about them.

It turns out that they've got a webpage where you can submit your toy to be graded by 4 different "Authorities"

-AFA - Action Figure Authority

-DCA - Die Cast Authority

-CDA - Collectible Toy Authority

-VGA - Video Game Authority

LEGO sets apply in the first one.

The AFA grades toys and LEGO sets between 1 and 10, and after a search on Ebay I couldn't find anything above 9.5 (it appears as it is really difficult to get a perfect 10).

Here I leave you the AFA page:

http://www.toygrader.com/

So I decided to make this topic, to hear about your opinions on the AFA, if you've ever submitted a LEGO set to them, if you dislike them or anything you've got to say about them. In my personal case I've never thought of LEGO as a big collectible so I've never submitted a set for grading, the way I see it keeping LEGO unopened for grading is a waste of it but afterall that's only my opinion, so I'd like to hear yours.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Bilbo Baggins

[LEGO Guy Bri]

This was quite an interesting find. I can't say that I would ever actually send a LEGO set in for grading due to the fact that you can only grade it based on the box's exterior. There is no way to judge the contents without opening it... unless someone has an MRI lying around. So how could they tell what defects or damages are present, how can one tell if a sticker sheet or instruction manual are bent? Or would that even matter?

On a side note... $12,500 for 10719? How much is the 10179 UCS Millennium Falcon worth? But seriously, are LEGO graded under the AFA because of the minifigs?

[Bilbo Baggins]

I hadn't consider that, the fact that the box is being graded and not its contents is kind of dumb. I've noticed that AFOL community cares more for the state of the instructions than the box they come in. But on the other side if you are getting a toy reviewed is because you aren't going to open it, so there's no point of knowing what is the state of its contents

Edited September 4, 2012 by Bilbo Baggins

[LEGO Guy Bri]

I see what you mean, but you also have to look at the fact that most toys, especially action figures, are in blister packs or have clear panels. So a grader can see if the toy has any defects that way. I have heard of defects actually raising the price of a figure, but that is a very rare occurrence. On occasions when I'm not buying LEGO, I do check over Hot Wheels, Matchbox, 1:18 scale model cars, so I don't buy a messed up vehicle. I think LEGO quit making boxes with that fold away panel, revealing some of the parts, 3-5 years ago. Don't quote me on that though, that is an answer for the LEGO Historian

[into the blue]

These have been around for a while, there's also a company (CGC) that grades comics books in a similar style.

The plus point is that your object gets professionally graded and is therefore worth more money (depending on the grade given), the minus point is that your toy/book is sealed in a case and can never be removed.

Because once you take it out of that sealed container that grade is no longer relevant.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I had as well heard of CGC a couple months back, and I'm actually considering sending some comics. On the AFA topic, I understand why someone would grade a Action Figure since they are as collectible as comic-books, but I just can't simply picture LEGO sets as collectibles

Edited September 6, 2012 by Bilbo Baggins

[Ferrik]

I just had a look at the site and it just isnt' appealing to me. Grading LEGO sets, isn't that kinda what reviews do?

Anyway, $12,500?! That is way too much for 2007 LEGO Millenium Falcon 10719. The original price was $US500...

[LEGO Guy Bri]

but I just can't simply picture LEGO sets as collectibles

Definitely agree, LEGO is for building>play>rebuilding, etc. I can't wait to have the space to open my new sets. Looking at a box isn't as fun as looking or handling the model

[Bilbo Baggins]

I just had a look at the site and it just isnt' appealing to me. Grading LEGO sets, isn't that kinda what reviews do?

Reviews, grade the set, AFA grades the condition of the set

[Greedo24]

I don't like AFA grading for two reasons:

1.What is the piont if a unbuilt and boxed lego set??!?!?!!??! :wacko:

2.People are charging TRIPLE the price because it is graded

AFA grading is for action figures,not construction toys!

[BrickG]

Every time I see those grades and prices I can't help but think "bull crap".

Seriously, I'll say it too. Bull crap.

If you ever can actually sell those things for those insane prices it's a miracle and you've found a sucker (which is usually from that small group of people who actually care about these grading things). Unless it's something like Superman's first comic I can find it for 1/10th the price or better most of the time.

You can find some of these graded things on ebay. I can literally get those same Legos I see there in the same condition from a place like Bricklink at a tiny freakin' fraction of the price.

Edited September 10, 2012 by BrickG

[Ferrik]

Reviews, grade the set, AFA grades the condition of the set

Oh, haha.

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

If you look at the other items that the seller has for sale, I saw some of these sets at Celebration VI as they had a booth there. I had never seen graded LEGO sets before so when I saw LEGO sets in a hard plastic case, it really caught my eye. I've read the comments thus far and it seems that a lot of the folks here are against LEGO being graded. Unfortunately though, I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. I've collected comic books and sports cards during my lifetime (don't anymore) and once word spreads, I can see more and more listings of graded LEGO. It may not catch on immediately but I can see it eventually getting there. How long will it take? Who knows.

[BrickG]

If you look at the other items that the seller has for sale, I saw some of these sets at Celebration VI as they had a booth there. I had never seen graded LEGO sets before so when I saw LEGO sets in a hard plastic case, it really caught my eye. I've read the comments thus far and it seems that a lot of the folks here are against LEGO being graded. Unfortunately though, I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. I've collected comic books and sports cards during my lifetime (don't anymore) and once word spreads, I can see more and more listings of graded LEGO. It may not catch on immediately but I can see it eventually getting there. How long will it take? Who knows.

I think the grading is fine but the people seem to get paid to grade. When you get these graded you usually get a price too so you know how much it's worth. The problem is collectors and graders are so often freakin' overestimating the value. There are several graded things on Ebay that are currently going for like 10x the actual worth. It's ridiculous. I don't mind grades. I mind the LIES told about the value. I can buy them loose and outside of a special grade case for 1/10th the price, then pay a grader $50 to grade it 10x what I paid and put it in a fancy case.

Ridiculous. I don't like them because most of the time they're dumb like that.

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

I think the grading is fine but the people seem to get paid to grade. When you get these graded you usually get a price too so you know how much it's worth. The problem is collectors and graders are so often freakin' overestimating the value. There are several graded things on Ebay that are currently going for like 10x the actual worth. It's ridiculous. I don't mind grades. I mind the LIES told about the value. I can buy them loose and outside of a special grade case for 1/10th the price, then pay a grader $50 to grade it 10x what I paid and put it in a fancy case.

Ridiculous. I don't like them because most of the time they're dumb like that.

My understanding is, all The Grader will do is grade the condition of the item. In the case of a sealed LEGO set, the condition of the box. I think this is similar to a vintage Star Wars vehicle where the condition of the box is graded but the contents themselves are not. Collectors will set a price that they're willing to pay based on the graded condition of a particular set. The owner of a graded set can assign any value they wish. If someone purchases it then it validates the price that was set.

[BrickG]

Lego Cloud City 10123 is a good example.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-LEGO-STAR-WARS-CLOUD-CITY-10123-GRADED-AFA-9-0-CLASSIC-SERIES-/221118362467?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337bae7363#ht_2672wt_1163

This is what I see when I see graded things: Things that people value ridiculously high. It doesn't validate the prices. It validates the fools who are willing to pay those prices.

You can find this set ungraded, new inside the box, in good condition for like $800. On a lucky day I've seen it go for $500. This one is graded so it's suddenly worth 12x as much? Yes, it's only one example. But it's something I see all the time. And for Lego it seems even less accurate.

Grading is an excuse to charge too much.

And most graders I know of also assign a value. Not all. Not sure how common it is with Lego toys.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I can see more and more listings of graded LEGO. It may not catch on immediately but I can see it eventually getting there. How long will it take? Who knows.

Yeah, I've noticed that too, who knows? Maybe LEGO sets will become the next Star Wars action figures who are really popular at AFA.

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

This is what I see when I see graded things: Things that people value ridiculously high. It doesn't validate the prices. It validates the fools who are willing to pay those prices.

Very well put. As the fools pay these astronomical prices, they are setting an expectation of prices for collectors.

Yeah, I've noticed that too, who knows? Maybe LEGO sets will become the next Star Wars action figures who are really popular at AFA.

The fact that AFA has graded LEGO sets tells me that they have been approached about it by a good amount of potential customers. A decision was made at a certain level that LEGO sets are something they will grade.

[Bilbo Baggins]

On the Cloud City example you may notice that even though it is priced at $5000 it has no offers

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

The lack of offers may be a reflection of how ridiculous their Buy it Now price is. I'm tracking their listings to see if they sell and for how much.

[Shawn]

Very well put. As the fools pay these astronomical prices, they are setting an expectation of prices for collectors.

The fact that AFA has graded LEGO sets tells me that they have been approached about it by a good amount of potential customers. A decision was made at a certain level that LEGO sets are something they will grade.

Someone sold a bunch of these on ebay years ago. I picked up a lego 8010 set graded by afa about 4 years ago and I looked at and kept it for a year and I eventually resold it on ebay cause it did not match my other sets and becasue it would be too expensive to grade the otehr ones. At the time whoever they were, sold about 15 sets and They all were between 80 and a few hundred dollars. One exception went for about 700 (7191).

I resold mine for about $90. I was mostly interested in seeing how the case would help protect the boxes on the larger sets. It took forever to sell and no one appeared to want it.

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

Thanks for the background info. As a member of a family that has only been buying LEGO since the Holidays of 2009, I was completely unaware of that. I'm curious to know how many LEGO sets AFA has graded. That would be some interesting information to know.

[fred67]

I can't help but think of how stupid this process is...

The sets are worth what people will pay for it. You can ask $12k for a set; if no one is willing to pay that much, then it's not worth that much, no matter what some appraisers say. Even then, just because some sucker buys it doesn't mean it was actually worth it - I routinely see sets selling on Ebay that people could have gotten cheaper at bricklink, they just don't know about bricklink or their other avenues for buying old sets.

When I try to decide what to ask for sets I am selling, I go on bricklink and look at the LOWEST price in my region (not the average, but the LOWEST) for the new COMPLETE set (often the price guide is foobarred by people selling "New" sets, but without minifigures or something). That's what it's currently worth, IMO... looking at the sales stats helps, but often you don't get the whole picture (often times when you see an outrageously high or low price, there was something else that was part of the deal that you don't see, often some other trade).

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

From what I understand, when you get a set graded by a company, they don't appraise the value. Same goes for other collector items that are graded such as sports cards or comics. The Grading Company will grade the condition of the item. What the item fetches on eBay, conventions, etc. is irrelevant to the grader.

As far as Bricklink is concerned, I never go by the lowest price an item is sold for. As far as I know, there's no way to tell if the particular item sold was a complete set or incomplete set. Now that I typed that, I'm sure there's a way to filter the data to reflect complete/incomplete sets.

[fred67]

From what I understand, when you get a set graded by a company, they don't appraise the value. Same goes for other collector items that are graded such as sports cards or comics. The Grading Company will grade the condition of the item. What the item fetches on eBay, conventions, etc. is irrelevant to the grader.

As far as Bricklink is concerned, I never go by the lowest price an item is sold for. As far as I know, there's no way to tell if the particular item sold was a complete set or incomplete set. Now that I typed that, I'm sure there's a way to filter the data to reflect complete/incomplete sets.

Yeah, I mentioned that... I don't necessarily look at the lowest selling price, but the lowest selling price for a complete set - I haven't found a way to find out if it's complete without clicking the link from the price guide. I am usually only wary of the sales stats if it differs significantly from the available set prices... like why someone paid $300 for a set that is available from many sellers for $200 or less... I think some might do it to screw up the price guide; same thing on the low end... if the lowest price is $200, but it says one sold for $75 last month, I get suspicious.

In other words, and it's only a ballpark starting figure, I look at the lowest price in my region, but I check the links to make sure it's complete and not damaged box or anything.