Why were the 2005 city sets so bad?

[MrZ]

I don't understand why, when Lego decided to revamp City in 2005, the initial sets were so bad. Firstly, the colour schemes of the police and fire station were terrible - black and white and red and black?? Then there were the raised baseplates on the police station and hospital - which I absolutely hate - with silly ramps leading up to the garages. Raised plates in town setting = bad idea. The fire station was too small and didn't even include a fire engine. Oh, and then there was that huge <insert that tiresome argument> dump truck. In summary, it was a very forgettable year for Lego town/city. Why and how did they get it so wrong? The current sets are infinitely better, and even the sets from the early to mid 1990s were superior IMO.

[lightningtiger]

Actually, 2005 saw the start of Lego city and everything must have a starting point.....what's wrong with the following.

Though the fire station and the following year's hospital wasn't that good at all !

The dump truck I actually like....reminds me of a Tonka truck.

Brick On in 2011 !

[MrZ]

Those sets were OK, but the street sweeper was basically an updated set from the 1990s.

[lightningtiger]

Those sets were OK, but the street sweeper was basically an updated set from the 1990s.

So, Lego has this habit of releasing stuff every few years.

[Brickviller]

Well, the 2005 were bad because this was the year that Lego finnaly decided to do everthing different, since they had lost a lot of money due to dropping sales. The theme before this one was World City, which was also only police and rescue. Lego needed to rethink their concept of sets for children that they can relate to. Police and fire sets still looked a lot like the World City color scheme, but it also introduced much new things. Also the construction sets were not that good, but this can be due to the fact that they didn't design much desend constuction sets in years. I don't think they're that bad at all. It was also a learning process for Lego, because if you look at the sets of today, or a few years back, you still can see they used basic shapes and constructions of the first wave of City, only better. Much like the evolution of cars in the real world, everything gets better over time. After these years they expanded this theme even further than any other town theme in Lego's history. With the farm sets, forrest police and fire and so on. Some sets were better, and some worse but no-one can deny that the introduction of the new City theme was a turning point in Lego history.

[MrZ]

Interesting perspective, Brickviller, thanks. It wasn't just the sets though - even the new road plates from 2005 were bad. Not nearly as good as the 1980s ones, mainly because they don't have footpaths.

Edited October 5, 2011 by MrZ

[jonwil]

The huge dump truck with the huge tipper body is great, I am glad I bought one, it makes a great mining truck for an iron ore mine or something.

[lightningtiger]

It wasn't just the sets though - even the new road plates from 2005 were bad. Not nearly as good as the 1980s ones, mainly because they don't have footpaths.

Footpaths ?

Don't we all tile the studs over to make footpaths ?

[danim]

I have been putting x*6 plates across all my road plates to create paths

[lowbike1]

I just searched brickset for these, they look fine to me

[Hinckley]

Town JR was 10 times worse. I'm not sure the point in starting such a subjective topic. Why not a more objective topic: What was your favorite year in LEGO Town production? in which you could pose the question and which was your least favorite. Setting out a topic with an opinion that can only be agreed or disagreed with usually don't make for good discussions. Making a more broad discussion will get better responses and stimulate better discussion. We can leave this open, but I can't see it going much further than "It was a good year!" "No, he's right, it was a bad year."

[fyrmedhatt]

I have to second what most people are saying here, Lego City in 2005 was weird because Lego had to reinvent the theme from the failed Lego World City, which in itself was a massive improvement over the Town jr. and Jack Stone sets. The one thing that is truly different between todays city sets and those in 2005 is the scale of the vehicles, which was all over the place in 2005, with the XXL Crane truck which I believe was 12 wide and I don't know how long, as well as the XXL crane which I believe to be Lego's tallest set ever. Looking at how expensive these sets are on the second hand market I don't believe everyone thinks they are horrible sets, I do see many people who still integrate them in their city layouts. With the years, Lego has gained consistency in their designs as a result of figuring out what people really want from City, and the period from 2007 to now truly has some great sets and subthemes, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is remembered (almost) as fondly as the Town sets of the 80's 25 years from now.

Edit: used the wrong word there...

Edited October 5, 2011 by fyrmedhatt

[MrZ]

Town JR was 10 times worse. I'm not sure the point in starting such a subjective topic. Why not a more objective topic: What was your favorite year in LEGO Town production? in which you could pose the question and which was your least favorite. Setting out a topic with an opinion that can only be agreed or disagreed with usually don't make for good discussions. Making a more broad discussion will get better responses and stimulate better discussion. We can leave this open, but I can't see it going much further than "It was a good year!" "No, he's right, it was a bad year."

Fair point, but I wasn't intending to make it a poll of whether or not it was a bad year or not. I think most people would agree it was bad, but that's beside the point. I was really wanting to know the reason behind it being such a bad year, not IF, but WHY. Where did Lego go wrong and what could they have done different, kind of thing.

[Aanchir]

I think 2005 was a pretty good year for LEGO City. Some of the sets felt kind of amateur in design, but they were moving towards being a bit more realistic than some of their World City and Town Jr. counterparts. The three which lightningtiger identifies are particularly outstanding (besides maybe the dump truck in the construction site set, which pales in comparison to later City sets).

Meanwhile, I think the road plates introduced in 2005 are some of the best for using within an actual city. The only City set I know my family owned from 2005 was the XXL Mobile Crane, but looking at Brickset's list of 2005 City sets I can see a lot that manage to surpass their predecessors.

Then again, I tend to have a generally positive attitude about a lot of things, so perhaps my opinion isn't as valid as that of someone with more discerning tastes. Certainly 2005 City sets had their weak points, such as the fire station and many of the impulse-sized sets. But it was a strong foundation for the City theme we have today, so I think 2005 can be appreciated just as much as many previous or subsequent years.

[MrZ]

The one thing that is truly different between todays city sets and those in 2005 is the scale of the vehicles, which was all over the place in 2005, with the XXL Crane truck which I believe was 12 wide and I don't know how wide, as well as the XXL crane which I believe to be Lego's tallest set ever.

Funnily enough I actually don't have a problem with the various vehicle sizes of 2005. What's wrong with the XXL mobile crane being 12 wide? Have you seen those things - they're enormous and take up 2 lanes on the road in real life. That set, and the XXL crane, I think are both very realistic. Yet Lego also decided to put huge bulging wheel arches and wheels on it's cars, which gave them a very cartoony look. Sadly this still continues today. It works well for the 6-stud wide trucks, but 4-stud wide cars should have smaller wheels without the bulging arches.

[paul_delahaye]

Time to add some pictures to this thread

I don't think 2005 as a year can be singled out, if anything 2009 in my opinion was the special year for city sets.

I actually don't have anything against the designs, I think in most cases the theme for the model is spot on and needed in our towns, the issue I have, and it would be great to have this explained, is why the designers insist on using such a stupid scale? especially when it is branded as City, city means it should fit in a City, some of these sets are on the scale of Model Team (minus the details)

Here are some examples, most of which I own! ahhh

Lets start in 2005

A tad over sized for most harbours

Great, a new crane at last, but why so big?

Look at the size of that thing!

Moving onto 2006, can this be a better year?

In scale terms, this bridge is far to big to be on a Truck

2007

Again, nice idea a hovercraft, but why so big?

This was actually a nice looking truck, just the scale was too big for our cities

ahhh, 2008,

now this set a new standard,

The RIB was quite nice

2009

Actually this was a nicely designed set, new latice pieces, just rather large

A combine, what ever farm needs, but this one can harvest the wheat in half the time

again, a good set, but far too big for lego city

love this one, if they had only made it 6 studs wide, the compaction plate accessory is great

2010

Really?

2011

I actually love the design of the tractor unit, the boat is good too, it just looks wrong on the flatbed

I've missed a few more of these oversized police and fire boats, but put this one from this year in the mix

Anyone an idea on the scale logic?

Paul

[CMP]

No...those are all about normal size. They're not supposed to be the size of cars, they're heavy lifters/off-road vehicles.

[Hinckley]

wanting to know the reason behind it being such a bad year, not IF, but WHY.

Therein lies the error in your reasoning. You assume everyone thinks it's a bad year. Trying to find out why only matters if everyone thinks it was a bad year which is clearly not the case. And what poll would help that? Lists of reasons why it was a bad year?

Poll Example:

Why was 2005 a bad year for LEGO Town?

A. Because it was a transition from the (subjective) bad World City Theme and Town Jr theme.

B. LEGO had the audacity to create sets I (probably subjective) didn't find appealing.

C. The sets weren't good.

D. LEGO needed to save money so they hired jerks to create bad sets.

E. There was a diabolical insider plot to ruin the future of Town at the LEGO Group.

I think it was a successful year and it's when I started buying Town sets again. I think they got something right that year they had been missing for a long time. So, I can't participate in your discussion because I disagree with the basic assumption you are making in posing it.

I've added a poll for you. I can add another question if you like. Just let me know.

Anyone an idea on the scale logic?

Ever note the scale between humans and vehicles IRL?

[Freddie]

Scale-wise - the harvester is actually pretty tiny compared to the real deal! It's not a city-vehicle, I'll grant you that, but it's still small for a harvester. Actually, scale-wise many of those sets are either down-scaled or just right.

Right, on topic:

Apart from 2005 being the year that brought me out of my dark ages, 7236 being that very set, it was essentially a reboot of a theme that since '96 had dwindled into obscurity. Despite the oversized wheelarches and wheels, lack of doors and such, that particular set had more in common with classic town cars than more recent offerings, and it sparked my interest again. The overall design was one that I recognized from my childhood, and while it might not be as good as today's designs, it did form a base that newer designs could be evolved from. It's the same with 7239, that gave a basic design for trucks (not to mention that it has outlasted many of them, still going strong in 2011!), and 7245, which gave a foundation for vans. The buildings have evolved as well, from using raised baseplates to flat ones instead, and using roller-doors for garages instead of open ones, returning the design to the play-feature-heavy designs of the 80's.

Essentially, 2005 formed the foundation for what City is today, and while the designs might be bad compared to what is available today, they were excellent and deliciously "retro" for the time.

[lightningtiger]

I wrote yesterday, 2005 was the start of a new theme basically, world city was heading in the right direction away from TownJr style sets. Remember it's not one designer who designs city sets, so some of them might have been still stuck in the past with their thinking.

Topic of scale should be a topic launched on it's own so it does cloud this one.

[Piranha]

True I agree that 2005 was the foundation for the current line of very nice city sets, however I really felt in 2007 was when they became exceptional in design

[President of Brick Town]

Not all of them are bad, some are great for us AFOLs, like the fire truck and police MC. 7239 didn't stop production until present time. Some are bad and only kids like them like speedboat (looks like city I think it's 2004

[UCSProductions1]

Well I don't have these sets but I do have friends that do and they are pretty bad mainly because of the poor designs and lame features but the parts that came in the sets were actually useful for mocs in the Lego city/town genre.

[Commander Adama]

Funnily enough I actually don't have a problem with the various vehicle sizes of 2005. What's wrong with the XXL mobile crane being 12 wide? Have you seen those things - they're enormous and take up 2 lanes on the road in real life. That set, and the XXL crane, I think are both very realistic. Yet Lego also decided to put huge bulging wheel arches and wheels on it's cars, which gave them a very cartoony look. Sadly this still continues today. It works well for the 6-stud wide trucks, but 4-stud wide cars should have smaller wheels without the bulging arches.

I for one loved the 2005 City sets. I agree that wwe had the new Police and Fire department. But it was LEGO's first try at this new theme, it may of been just the same as before, but it was diffrent

[Ardelon]

I myself dislike the big vehicles of post-2005 City. I don’t buy the reasoning that the scale of cars to minifigs is more authentic, as now the vehicles positively dwarf the surrounding buildings. Why not make the buildings in a more realistic scale too? Becaue it would take a ridiculous amount of time and bricks and space and, ultimately, money. So, they should have kept the vehicles at roughly LEGO Town scale. In this review of set 6394 by Rapseflaps, he shows how out of scale the new cars look (scroll down to the last part of the review).

Now, Six-wide cars I can live with (to an extent, the bus from 7641 City Corner is simply a behemoth). But the vehicles just seem to grow taller and wider. It seems LEGO City is entering its SUV era, in contrast to the real world where smaller and more economical cars are the trend. Seems like LEGO City doesn’t have problems with rising gas prices.

The oversized construction sets don’t actually bug me that much, as I (personally) see them as independent of LEGO City. But since 2005 is when this trend started, I consider it a disappointing year, and I voted accordingly. And yes, I consider this scaling issue to be a bigger problem than Town Jr. That’s not to say I don’t like the City theme. The minifigs are great and some sets are nice, and I noticed that it moved away a great deal from racing, a permanent and sometimes overpowering subtheme of LEGO Town. It seemed like the whole town was built around the racing business – I bet that’s why it had such a large police force, they needed to clamp down on the ubiquitous speeding and race fixing.

Sorry for making this a scaling rant.