SpacePolice89 Posted January 28 Posted January 28 7 hours ago, iragm said: I emailed support @ bricksafe.com to offer help...do you have another email address? I used the same address. No answer yet. Quote
SpacePolice89 Posted January 28 Posted January 28 The founder of Bricksafe is here on Eurobricks @technicmad, he hasn't been active since 2019 but maybe we can contact him in some way and get more information? Quote
MAB Posted January 28 Posted January 28 9 hours ago, aFrInaTi0n said: I think for brickshelf it would be nice if someone could aquire the domain and create an association and let it own the domain - this could assure it would be maintained and also people could freely participate with work or donations. Whoever or whatever owned it would need to be careful if they are using submissions to the old site. Just about everything uploaded in the past was copyright the original designer / creator. They gave permission for the old brickshelf to display their work. A new brickshelf would be a new entity and the designers did not originally give permission for others to download their work, and upload it to a new site even if it has the same name. No doubt many designers won't care as it is alreafy out there but if one does, they should have a right not to have their work shared by a new entity. Especially if the new site earned anything through advertising or other means to be self-funding to future protect it, someone else making money of their work may swing creators' views. Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 28 Posted January 28 @MAB I am no lawyer & I think also national laws may be different - but it should be no issue if the owner of a platform changes, when the platform stays the same. So all previous agreements are still in place - from my newbish non-professional opinion at least that should be the case! :D Just think of Twitter/X as an example of changed ownerships & just going on with the regular business.. So yes, all cases need to be put into contracts between the former and the new owner - but if that is covered I wouldn't see esp this as a big stopper. Quote
MAB Posted January 28 Posted January 28 38 minutes ago, aFrInaTi0n said: @MAB I am no lawyer & I think also national laws may be different - but it should be no issue if the owner of a platform changes, when the platform stays the same. So all previous agreements are still in place - from my newbish non-professional opinion at least that should be the case! :D Just think of Twitter/X as an example of changed ownerships & just going on with the regular business.. So yes, all cases need to be put into contracts between the former and the new owner - but if that is covered I wouldn't see esp this as a big stopper. The post I responded to said acquire the domain, not the company. This would be different to twitter/X as there the company was sold. If the Brickshelf LLC becomes defunct and the domain is later acquired, that is not the same company. Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 28 Posted January 28 I am no native english speaking so excuse my poorly written question for ChatGPT, but here is it's answer: Spoiler Yes, an LLC can sell a domain and the associated contents (including the images) to a new owner, but the process must comply with legal, contractual, and privacy obligations. Here are the key considerations and steps to ensure that the transfer is done legally: 1. Review Existing User Agreements Ownership Clause: Check the current terms of service (TOS) or user agreements to confirm the rights and obligations regarding the ownership of user-uploaded content. Most platforms include clauses about intellectual property rights, data ownership, and transferability. Transfer of Agreement: Look for provisions that allow for the transfer of these agreements to a new owner in case of a sale or acquisition. Many TOS documents include clauses stating that the agreement may be assigned to a successor or acquirer of the business. 2. Obtain User Consent (if required) Depending on the jurisdiction and the wording of the agreement, users may need to be notified or explicitly consent to the transfer of their data or content rights. For example: If the TOS explicitly permits the transfer of ownership without user consent, only a notification to users may be required. If the TOS is silent or unclear, additional legal steps or direct consent from users might be necessary. 3. Adhere to Privacy Laws User-uploaded content often includes personal data (e.g., user account information, metadata). Privacy regulations like the GDPR (EU), CCPA (California), or others may impose strict rules on transferring personal data. Key actions: Transparency: Notify users about the transfer, the identity of the new owner, and how their data will be used. Purpose Limitation: Ensure the new owner adheres to the original purpose for which the data was collected, unless users provide consent for expanded use. Data Minimization: Transfer only the data necessary for the continued operation of the service. 4. Legal Due Diligence Both the seller (LLC) and the buyer should conduct due diligence to ensure: There are no existing legal disputes over the ownership of the domain or the contents. The terms of the sale include clear disclaimers and indemnifications regarding potential future disputes with users or third parties. 5. Update Terms of Service and Privacy Policy The new owner should update the TOS and privacy policy to reflect their ownership and management of the domain and contents. Users should be given notice of these updates and (in some cases) an option to terminate their relationship with the service if they disagree with the changes. 6. Transfer of Hosting and Operations The physical hosting of images and data must also be transferred to the new owner, ensuring continuity of service and compliance with security and data protection standards. Ensure that the hosting provider (if outsourced) is informed of the ownership change and that contracts with the hosting provider are appropriately transferred or re-established. Practical Example Let’s say your LLC operates a photo-sharing platform: Users upload images, retaining legal ownership under the TOS. If you sell the domain and service to a new owner, the user agreement (if it allows transfer) will apply to the new owner, who will inherit the obligation to protect the users’ ownership rights. The new owner must continue operating within the legal framework established in the existing agreement unless users explicitly agree to revised terms. Summary Yes, the construct of hosting the images and the agreements can be transferred to a new owner, but it must comply with the original user agreements, data protection laws, and privacy regulations. Legal advice is strongly recommended to ensure compliance with relevant laws and to draft appropriate agreements for the sale and transfer. So I think there would be ways, but think some lawyer may be better consulted for both parties knowing everything is well defined & all surrounding parameters would fit - but doing it right would directly cost money.. *sigh I think we can agree on such change would be no easy thing, like just signing a 2-line contract on a kitchen table... Quote
Spoiler Yes, an LLC can sell a domain and the associated contents (including the images) to a new owner, but the process must comply with legal, contractual, and privacy obligations. Here are the key considerations and steps to ensure that the transfer is done legally: 1. Review Existing User Agreements Ownership Clause: Check the current terms of service (TOS) or user agreements to confirm the rights and obligations regarding the ownership of user-uploaded content. Most platforms include clauses about intellectual property rights, data ownership, and transferability. Transfer of Agreement: Look for provisions that allow for the transfer of these agreements to a new owner in case of a sale or acquisition. Many TOS documents include clauses stating that the agreement may be assigned to a successor or acquirer of the business. 2. Obtain User Consent (if required) Depending on the jurisdiction and the wording of the agreement, users may need to be notified or explicitly consent to the transfer of their data or content rights. For example: If the TOS explicitly permits the transfer of ownership without user consent, only a notification to users may be required. If the TOS is silent or unclear, additional legal steps or direct consent from users might be necessary. 3. Adhere to Privacy Laws User-uploaded content often includes personal data (e.g., user account information, metadata). Privacy regulations like the GDPR (EU), CCPA (California), or others may impose strict rules on transferring personal data. Key actions: Transparency: Notify users about the transfer, the identity of the new owner, and how their data will be used. Purpose Limitation: Ensure the new owner adheres to the original purpose for which the data was collected, unless users provide consent for expanded use. Data Minimization: Transfer only the data necessary for the continued operation of the service. 4. Legal Due Diligence Both the seller (LLC) and the buyer should conduct due diligence to ensure: There are no existing legal disputes over the ownership of the domain or the contents. The terms of the sale include clear disclaimers and indemnifications regarding potential future disputes with users or third parties. 5. Update Terms of Service and Privacy Policy The new owner should update the TOS and privacy policy to reflect their ownership and management of the domain and contents. Users should be given notice of these updates and (in some cases) an option to terminate their relationship with the service if they disagree with the changes. 6. Transfer of Hosting and Operations The physical hosting of images and data must also be transferred to the new owner, ensuring continuity of service and compliance with security and data protection standards. Ensure that the hosting provider (if outsourced) is informed of the ownership change and that contracts with the hosting provider are appropriately transferred or re-established. Practical Example Let’s say your LLC operates a photo-sharing platform: Users upload images, retaining legal ownership under the TOS. If you sell the domain and service to a new owner, the user agreement (if it allows transfer) will apply to the new owner, who will inherit the obligation to protect the users’ ownership rights. The new owner must continue operating within the legal framework established in the existing agreement unless users explicitly agree to revised terms. Summary Yes, the construct of hosting the images and the agreements can be transferred to a new owner, but it must comply with the original user agreements, data protection laws, and privacy regulations. Legal advice is strongly recommended to ensure compliance with relevant laws and to draft appropriate agreements for the sale and transfer. So I think there would be ways, but think some lawyer may be better consulted for both parties knowing everything is well defined & all surrounding parameters would fit - but doing it right would directly cost money.. *sigh I think we can agree on such change would be no easy thing, like just signing a 2-line contract on a kitchen table...
JesseNight Posted January 28 Posted January 28 21 hours ago, iragm said: I suspect (without seeing their bandwidth and disk usage) that the costs are not as high as you would think. Depending on the hosting provider, perhaps $100-200 a month, some of which can be offset with ads. I would front that cost, I spend more than that a month on plastic toys. I never said the costs would be high. The point is if the owner passed away, who's gonna take care of that? Or set it up with ads or a fundraiser even if only a small one? A relative with perhaps no affinity at all for Lego? Would they put time and effort into finding someone to take over? (some might but not everybody) Do they even have access? Think the provider would (or even could) interfere? 21 hours ago, iragm said: I emailed them but I have not heard anything back, but I did not make an offer, I just asked what ballpark they were looking to get. Some free estimation tools (of dubious accuracy) suggest it's worth $1500-3500, which is on the upper end of what I would be willing to pay. That might be due to the same issue. I think that's a pretty default provider notification. If there's nobody still actively using or even checking that email address, it'll sadly be going nowhere. It's sad that it will go down... But we better be prepared and put our effort into saving what we can, while we still can. Quote
iragm Posted January 28 Posted January 28 51 minutes ago, JesseNight said: If there's nobody still actively using or even checking that email address, it'll sadly be going nowhere brickshelf.com says "Inquiries for purchasing brickshelf may be sent to support@brickshelf.com" I emailed them an inquiry about purchasing the domain and have not heard a word yet. I haven't given up hope, but it seems unlikely they're going to sell it, so a domain name bot will grab it when it expires and put up ads. Such a shame. Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 28 Posted January 28 I got a mail reply with a roughly estimated - not final - pricetag. Not disclosing any details here, but my feeling is it could be a rough commitment for a single person already. Think they may answer your mail aswell - in my answer it was included that plenty of people messaged them already. So I have the feeling they are in search for an option which would allow the service to remain online. Quote
Toastie Posted January 28 Posted January 28 44 minutes ago, aFrInaTi0n said: option which would allow the service to remain online Where is TLG when they are really needed ... but I guess that will never happen. Unless - does anyone have the email address of Niels Christiansen? The one that goes through? Hah, just kidding of course. Cheers Thorsten Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 28 Posted January 28 I find LDraw quite amazing for what they achieved, to quote: Quote In Feburary 2004, an LDraw community vote was held to ratify the LDraw.org Bylaws drafts. The vote was concluded on February 26, 2004, and the bylaws were ratified with a final vote of 52-4. This decisive move by members of a loosely organized internet community ushered in a democratic framework for LDraw.org governance which did not exist prior. via https://www.ldraw.org/article/283.html - such would be ideal in my opinion to be considered from the people owning any site which got important over time. Quote
EWay Posted January 28 Posted January 28 On 1/25/2025 at 6:49 PM, Murdoch17 said: @Jim can you frontpage this info about Brickshelf? Seconding this request, I just found out completely by chance. Quote
MAB Posted January 29 Posted January 29 10 hours ago, aFrInaTi0n said: I got a mail reply with a roughly estimated - not final - pricetag. Not disclosing any details here, but my feeling is it could be a rough commitment for a single person already. Think they may answer your mail aswell - in my answer it was included that plenty of people messaged them already. So I have the feeling they are in search for an option which would allow the service to remain online. Every person contacting them and asking about buying it is probably pushing the price up. Quote
Milan Posted January 29 Posted January 29 On 1/28/2025 at 8:30 AM, SpacePolice89 said: The founder of Bricksafe is here on Eurobricks @technicmad, he hasn't been active since 2019 but maybe we can contact him in some way and get more information? We still can send him a PM via EB, which will also send him an email. 12 hours ago, EWay said: Seconding this request, I just found out completely by chance. I will Frontpage it. I will also make a topic on the Technic forum and redirect it here. We need all the attention we can get. I have around 10.000 images from BS on my computer in my gallery, but we need to preserve most if not everything of the 5 million files. @aFrInaTi0n as the last resort, is your script capable of scrapping all the files from the Brickshelf.com, at least to secure it as is? We can do payments for the drive or cloud. Quote
Erik Leppen Posted January 29 Posted January 29 I have all my stuff on brickshelf, but my main concern is not the files. I have my files locally. My main concern is the broken links everywhere. I don't know if anything could be done about that though. If the URL goes down, all links to it will become dead links, I guess? (I'm not really into web-development so I don't know.) Quote
Trekkie99 Posted January 29 Author Posted January 29 Fairly common to find dead photobucket links on old posts on forums. The user (assuming they’re around) or a mod would have to edit the post and have a copy of the photo that they can reupload to a new platform and share from there. Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 29 Posted January 29 I have the big fear of everybody now trying to pull ALL files & their service getting a huge price increase for a raised traffic. What I already got from the communications with them is, they are in activly in search for a new owner who has a strong interest to keep the site and all the historical assets in place. Whoever that may be has to invest time and money - and there may be even more hidden & dangerous topics like securing the platform with a new valid TOS and other legal notices may create the need for the owner to have that verified by a lawyer as the owner may otherwise be held responsible for sharing inapprobiate content from the platform to the internet. Also the owner needs to think of some approval procedure for having some security layer in to not directly publish every uploaded image - this may need additional efforts in time or money to develop such (AI is no valid argument here, as there are some projects out there to cover the functionality, still they need to be implemented into the solution). also one would need to constantly monitor the platform and do security fixes / prevent spammers from missusing the service, etc... Th point I would like to make is: I think plenty of people may take the thought of "buying and running brickshelf" a little bit too easy and not thinking of the legal possibilities which may arise in worst cases - as long as one has no solutions for those I would highly recommend to think again about those parts and really consider if one is willing to take all the legal and financial risks. Additionally the issue is not solved but just shifted as the new owner will die one day in the future - so as mentioned already I think such sites / or interested buyers should really think about creating an association and let it own the site. This would help to share the accountability, costs and efforts. Quote
Aurorasaurus Posted January 29 Posted January 29 On 1/28/2025 at 6:13 AM, aFrInaTi0n said: To add: Discord seems to persist all Images in the chats aswell & they can be shared externally... just thinking loud here *cough A while ago they were toying with the idea of making their media links only last for a week, I believe. Maybe that was just downloads for .zips and whatnot and not images though. The youtuber notexttospeech has heaps of videos about discord, you might be able to find it. But certainly, discord is owned by tencent - revenue, and profit, in the billions. It would be a real shock if it went anywhere. Quote
aFrInaTi0n Posted January 29 Posted January 29 I am no fan of Discord at all - my spidersense tells me they got too much power by too many people. Also the dll hooks directly working and without even asking the user before, for e.g. "recognizing played games from steam and other locally installed platforms" is concerning me a bit - did they also not tell us they have a DLL hook into our chrome browsers and basically have access to all our sensitive data already?! Funny incident last week when I sent a link to a non-public topic in discord and the preview window was able to read the fucking contents - so I am really concerned (but also still using their service, so I am part of the issue!). Quote
iragm Posted January 29 Posted January 29 1 hour ago, aFrInaTi0n said: What I already got from the communications with them is, they are in activly in search for a new owner who has a strong interest to keep the site and all the historical assets in place. Whoever that may be has to invest time and money - and there may be even more hidden & dangerous topics like securing the platform with a new valid TOS and other legal notices may create the need for the owner to have that verified by a lawyer as the owner may otherwise be held responsible for sharing inapprobiate content from the platform to the internet. This is good news that they are searching for someone to take this over. The owner should set up an LLC for their own protection regardless, but would not be responsible for inappropriate content -- Facebook is (mostly) not liable if someone posts inappropriate stuff. I run an open source website for a small community (15-30k visits per month) and in general people are far more honest and decent than you would believe. I have never had an issue. The site itself is owned by a non profit so I have no personal liability, and the hosting costs are under $20 per month. The only issue is the time needed to maintain the project, which is substantial. 1 hour ago, aFrInaTi0n said: Additionally the issue is not solved but just shifted as the new owner will die one day in the future - so as mentioned already I think such sites / or interested buyers should really think about creating an association and let it own the site. This would help to share the accountability, costs and efforts. Yes, an association would be ideal, but these types of projects are nearly always spearheaded by a single person. This can be done by allowing access to the server by more than one person -- 2 of 3 multisig is great for this. Quote
Thirdwigg Posted January 29 Posted January 29 Thanks all for your work here. Brickshelf was what got me back into LEGO all the way back in 2004. I have been slowly backing up all my files, as many have been stored on many computers over the years. It will take me a long time to fix all the broken links. While Flickr works, I'm more concerned with the long term stability of that site than I was about Brickshelf. I wonder if Bricksafe is slowly going this way well, as Rebrickable now hosts MOC photos, rather than link them to Bricksafe. I'll follow this conversation with interest to see what options become available. For now, I'll leave my folders available, but I'm backing everything up. Quote
MAB Posted January 29 Posted January 29 4 hours ago, aFrInaTi0n said: It is how capitalism works, I reckon.. If everyone is doing it for the same reason though - to save it for the community - then it ends up with allies with a common goal out-bidding each other and increasing the price someone has to pay. Quote
Stereo Posted January 29 Posted January 29 4 hours ago, Aurorasaurus said: A while ago they were toying with the idea of making their media links only last for a week, I believe. Maybe that was just downloads for .zips and whatnot and not images though. The youtuber notexttospeech has heaps of videos about discord, you might be able to find it. But certainly, discord is owned by tencent - revenue, and profit, in the billions. It would be a real shock if it went anywhere. They already did that with images last fall - links expire in a few days, if you're using Discord's own website (or app) it automatically updates links in posts to point at an available version, but if you hot link it'll fail. Quote
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