Why is LEGO so hesitant about bringing back classic themes?

[Lego David]

In the past five years or so, Classic themes such as Pirates or Castle have been almost completely absent, and we never got any reason as to why exactly they have been absent. One common theory is that they have been replaced by licensed themes such as Lord of the Rings and Pirates of the Caribbean... but at this point, none of those licensed themes are on shelves either. It is generally accepted that Star Wars is the reason why there are currently no In-House Space sets in shelves... but what about Castle and Pirates? There is no licensed counterpart to compete against them now. 

LEGO clearly knows about the popularity of those lines... they've even said it. But if they know about the popularity of those lines, and there is no licensed counterpart to compete against... then why are they so hestiant in bringing them back? 

I am no market expert, but I can cleary tell that the hunger for those themes is higher now than it has probably ever been before. Bringing those themes back now could proove to be very profitable move if done right. But despite all that... there is still no sign of those lines returing in the near future (with the exception of the occasional LEGO Ideas sets)

 

So what do you think? What do you think is the reason why LEGO doesn't bring them back, despite the seemingly good time to do so?

 

[TeriXeri]

2019 Space I can understand LEGO MOVIE 2 taking that slot for that year but those few metalbeard sets certainly wasn't a replacement for Pirates.

But Castle and Pirates haven't had much since Elves and Nexo Knights ended:

• Some figures/parts via(CMF/BAM )
• Creator 3-in-1 Rollercoaster/Tree House sets in 2018 instead of actual dedicated sets.
• 60th anniversary sets having some Pirates/Castle parts/accesoires and microscale builds.
• Friends Heart Box/Magazine gift having a pirate hat, and a somewhat Pirate themed fairground ride as well.

Still nothing like an actual theme/wave of sets.

The last Pirates wave was 2015, and 2016 Sky Pirates (Ninjago Skybound).

The last Castle wave could be debated between either 2013, or 2016-2018.

 

At least 2020 has something to look forward to but nothing points to a long-term presence of both Castle or Pirates yet.

Edited February 22, 2020 by TeriXeri

[The Island Chronicles]

Maybe our wants may not line up with what Lego wants to push. Or maybe they're not as popular as we think. 

I personally would like Racers to return but I can understand why it hasn't returned as Speed Champions has proven a better success as not only can you race them, but you can also put minifigures inside them. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Brandon Pea

[danth]

My bet is that they don't want Space to compete with Star Wars, Castle to compete with LotR and Harry Potter, Pirates to compete with PotC, etc. Until those licenses fizzle out we're stuck with them instead of Classic themes.

I think our only hope for Classic themes is CLASSIC. THEMED. CREATOR. SETS. as they could do one big one for each theme per year and not hurt sales of licensed sets too much.

Since Creator sets are already 3-in-1 then you'd really get 3 sets per theme and if they're big you can get enough minifigs.

Edited February 22, 2020 by danth
Grammar

[Medzomorak]

My speculation is that they want to innovate (take Hidden Side) continuously and they're waiting out to find the good angles. TLG burned itself already with some of the poorer execution of these classic themes and I'm not sure they've really learned from it. Or maybe they have indeed, even too much.

I think they just really not sure how these lines would sell today, how many sets should be pre-produced etc. 

Creator and IDEA seems to be the testing ground so I reckon it is going to take many many years until we see a proper version of a classic again.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Medzomorak

[TeriXeri]

6 hours ago, danth said:

My bet is that they don't want Space will compete with Star Wars, Castle to compete with LotR and Harry Potter, Pirates to compete with PotC, etc. Until those licenses fizzle out we're stuck with them instead of Classic themes.

I think our only hope for Classic themes is CLASSIC. THEMED. CREATOR. SETS. as they could do one big one for each theme per year and not hurt sales of licensed sets too much.

Since Creator sets are already 3-in-1 then you'd really get 3 sets per theme and if they're big you can get enough minifigs.

I also think 3-in-1 is the best way to bring us CLASSIC sets without a full theme, but still provide 3 sets in a certain theme/color scheme.

 

I wonder how that Summer 2020 3-in-1 Space Rover type set is going to turn out, can't find a description, beside a €50 price.

 

Personally hope it's more like a Sci-Fi take on things, as LEGO still has the City Space Rover on shelves, which already looked like the 2017 3-in-1 Space shuttle Alternate build.

Something based on sets like those would be nice to see as a Creator 3-in-1 "Rover" 

3-in-1 has done Sci-Fi in the past smaller sets (or references to it like the UFO/rockets in the Fairground ride), so scaling things up to a €50 set for 2-3 minifigs could be nice (and more Rover instead of Mech of course)

Edited February 23, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Medzomorak]

Anyway I'm not really into this 3 in 1 way. I'll take a very close look at the new pirate ship, but possibly just gonna buy some used oldie instead. Just calculated there's about $3000 worth classics out there I still want to get so I'm just waiting out as well I guess.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Medzomorak

[Lego David]

1 hour ago, danth said:

My bet is that they don't want Space will compete with Star Wars, Castle to compete with LotR and Harry Potter, Pirates to compete with PotC, etc. Until those licenses fizzle out we're stuck with them instead of Classic themes

Well... That was my point... Some of those licenses are gone by now. Like, there is no license to compate with Pirates at the moment, which means now it would be a good time to bring it back. But for some reason, LEGO hesitaes to do so.

 

[TeriXeri]

24 minutes ago, Medzomorak said:

Anyway I'm not really into this 3 in 1 way. 

I certainly don't think it's an amazing way either compared to an actual wave of sets, but for some reason we just don't get Castle or Pirates via regular means.

Also, sure BAM or CMF providing some Castle/Pirate/Space figures is nice I guess but I'd rather see regular retail sets instead of workarounds and ultimately more expensive figures.

Even putting Castles (Ice Samurai being the latest one) in via Ninjago or Hidden Side isn't very elegant to get anything CLASSIC, so I'll wait and see how those sets look (Castle of Mystery / Skull Dungeon)

Edited February 22, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Mylenium]

2 hours ago, Lego David said:

What do you think is the reason why LEGO doesn't bring them back, despite the seemingly good time to do so?

But is there ever actually a "good time"? Isn't there just "They could do it any time (if they commited to it)"? I agree that LEGO perhaps are missing out on something that would potentially sell without even much marketing when we're talking about Knights and Pirates. After all, Europe is plastered with castles and other such stuff and it's ingrained in our cultural DNA just as pirates are a natural part of colonialization history and seafaring exploration. Still, one has to recognize that these days you probably couldn't get away with stuff that was acceptable in the past. It would have to be more elaborate and detailed and culturally respectful, so a lot of research and development has to go into it. And where a Space theme is concerned, that's pretty much the same, but to the power of ten. The whole point of Star Wars being so successful is that everything is meticulously designed and fits into a larger universe, literally. You would have to pour so much effort into this, that it's probably not worthwile - that is unless you're going for a corny retro B-movie look or something like that. And in my view that's perhaps the single most important consideration: Do they have the resources and manpower to pull it off at a level of quality that would actually result in a sellable product? I don't think so. They're far too focused on licensing franchise stuff, expensive one-off sets and their existing series, all of which already may tie up their design and production teams. After all, if rumors are to be believed, work on "Hidden Side" started five years ago and it's still in a somewhat flimsy state. Maintaining multiple such series could be quite a challenge, if you get my meaning...

Mylenium

[dr_spock]

3 hours ago, Lego David said:

So what do you think? What do you think is the reason why LEGO doesn't bring them back, despite the seemingly good time to do so?

 

I would guess business case.   Either no one at LEGO® put together a business case for re-releasing themes or someone did and the business case did not meet the criteria to be approved to production. 

[LegoFjotten]

The answer is easy: They don't think those themes will perform as well as the ones they are currently doing. They go with what they think will be most successful. 

[The Island Chronicles]

1 hour ago, LegoFjotten said:

They go with what they think will be most successful. 

You mean, what they KNOW will be most successful.....

5 hours ago, danth said:

Until those licenses fizzle out we're stuck with them instead of Classic themes.

In that case, they'll never come. Themes like Star Wars, Pirates of the Carribean and Lord of the Rings will be popular to children until Disney gets shut down. 

On top of that, Lego wants to make things that children are familiar with. They don't want to bore them. 

Look at it this way. 

Make classic space, children will hesitate. Do SW and children will beg. That's what Lego looks at. Same with same POTC to Pirates and LOTR to Castle. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Brandon Pea

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, dr_spock said:

I would guess business case.   Either no one at LEGO® put together a business case for re-releasing themes or someone did and the business case did not meet the criteria to be approved to production.

@dr_spock Hmm. Very carefully phrased. Do you actually believe in the "either" case?

My take:
Business case not approved. Over and out.

Best
Thorsten

[danth]

4 hours ago, Lego David said:

Like, there is no license to compate with Pirates at the moment, which means now it would be a good time to bring it back. But for some reason, LEGO hesitaes to do so.

I'm totally with you.

[Gorilla94]

There was an interview a while ago. It was said that Lego learned during the crysis that their bricks need to be filled with stories. I agree with that. It worked perfectly with lego adventurers, when they put a free audiobook in the cheapest set.

Today i have my doubts if Lego can fill their bricks with stories without a licence that does the job. Both in their ability to write a good plot and to reach children with it. Nexoknights wasn't good and the idea of selling the audiobooks for a high  price instead of putting them into sets or making them free downloads was a mistake that shouldn't happen to a company.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Gorilla94

[TeriXeri]

52 minutes ago, Gorilla94 said:

Nexoknights wasn't good and the idea of selling the audiobooks for a high  price instead of putting them into sets or making them free downloads was a mistake that shouldn't happen to a company.

Nexo Knights TV show was free to watch, also on youtube.

Just because a theme sells Books, Audiobooks, DVDs also doesn't mean it's a mistake, Ninjago, Friends, Elves, Chima had those as well.

But there are exceptions, like the 2019 LEGO City Adventures TV show, I only can see Episode 1 on Youtube, the rest seems to be Nickelodeon exclusive.

Edited February 23, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Medzomorak]

34 minutes ago, Gorilla94 said:

There was an interview a while ago. It was said that Lego learned during the crysis that their bricks need to be filled with stories.

Speaking of interviews, why is there no information regarding this question from Lego? Is that such a business secret to have a little time to explain long-term directions? Or maybe there is something only I missed it totally? 

I'd much prefer TLG to behave like the video game industry, where communicating with the community becomes more and more essential for developer companies to be taken seriously. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Medzomorak

[The Island Chronicles]

36 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

But there are exceptions, like the 2019 LEGO City Adventures TV show, I only can see Episode 1 on Youtube, the rest seems to be Nickelodeon exclusive.

Unfortunately, the videos that are uploaded to YouTube are not available in the US. That's frustrating. 

[TeriXeri]

14 minutes ago, Brandon Pea said:

Unfortunately, the videos that are uploaded to YouTube are not available in the US. That's frustrating. 

Well, there's only 1 episode on there for City Adventures anyway.

I can't watch Episode 2-10 either unless I actually go watch Nickelodeon on Television.

And it seems they also split each episode in 2 seperate 11 minute parts and they broadcast them in no particular order, a bit annoying to eventually wanting to see them all.

42 minutes ago, Medzomorak said:

I'd much prefer TLG to behave like the video game industry, where communicating with the community becomes more and more essential for developer companies to be taken seriously. 

I think they do communicate but use that Ambassador Network place as a central spot for select people to keep it manageable, just like Game Developers sometimes invite certain people for feedback (I have been selected myself for feedback on a game a couple years ago)

 

There's a fair discussion on the exact same subject (Historic Themes)  here : 

It's from 2018, but still shows entirely different people that aren't active on Eurobricks.

https://forum.brickset.com/discussion/28993/are-lego-historical-themes-a-thing-of-the-past

 

I still think Eurobricks is a much better set-up forum, but still shows there are multiple seperate groups within the LEGO community.

I don't use the brickset forum myself but do comment at their articles.

Edited February 23, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Lego David]

7 hours ago, Gorilla94 said:

Today i have my doubts if Lego can fill their bricks with stories without a licence that does the job. Both in their ability to write a good plot and to reach children with it. Nexo Knights wasn't good and the idea of selling the audiobooks for a high  price instead of putting them into sets or making them free downloads was a mistake that shouldn't happen to a company

Well, themes like Bionicle and Ninjago have proven that it actually can be done. And the good storytelling that came with them is the reason why they became so successful.

I think one of the reasons Nexo Knights wasn't as successful as it could have been was it's sub par storytelling. 

I think all they need to do is just hire better people in the story department. If they succeed and doing that, and Castle or Pirates receive a proper story that connects with kids, then the success of those lines is pretty much guaranteed. Not to mention, they've even done it before with Knight's Kingdom 2, so creating a story about medieval Castle shouldn't even be that difficult.

6 hours ago, Medzomorak said:

I'd much prefer TLG to behave like the video game industry, where communicating with the community becomes more and more essential for developer companies to be taken seriously

I 100% agree with you. LEGO has gotten to the point where they can no longer just ignore its fanbase. 

Just look at something like the Sonic the Hedgehog movie... If that movie had kept the original design for Sonic, it would most likely been a flop. But because the people making it listened to the fan feedback and changed the character's design, the movie has been a success. 

So yeah, listening to the fans could do the difference between success and failure. And I think LEGO should take note of that.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Lego David

[The Island Chronicles]

7 minutes ago, Lego David said:

LEGO has gotten to the point where they can no longer just ignore its fanbase. 

They do listen to their fandom. They listen to the part of the fandom that they are trying to target. Children. 

[Lego David]

Just now, Brandon Pea said:

They do listen to their fandom. They listen to the part of the fandom that they are trying to target. Children. 

Really? How many kids do you know that actively communicate with LEGO? I personally don't know any.

[The Island Chronicles]

3 hours ago, Lego David said:

Really? How many kids do you know that actively communicate with LEGO? I personally don't know any.

Well you've got me there!

But still. We may not like everything that Lego does, but we've got to deal with it. 

[MAB]

On 2/22/2020 at 10:30 PM, LegoFjotten said:

The answer is easy: They don't think those themes will perform as well as the ones they are currently doing. They go with what they think will be most successful. 

This puts it perfectly. If they think new themes will sell better than redoing old ideas, then they will go with new.