Question regarding old style and new style magnetic train couplers

[lionatucla]

Are there any issues regarding the compatibility between the old style magnetic train couplers (parts 73092, 2920, and 4022) and the newer style which use the sealed magnets (91968c01)?  More specifically, are there any issues connecting old style train cars to the cars using the newer style?  Thanks

[XG BC]

i dont thimk there are any issues however if there for some bizarre reason are,you could always just build the newer style couplings into the old train cars.

XG BC

[lionatucla]

I don't think there would be any issues, and I know it would be straight forward to retrofit.  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience and who would be able to tell definitively.

[CSW652]

BrickTsar has a few videos covering this.  Here is one...

There is a better one where he explains that they all work together, but this one shows they can.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by CSW652

[lionatucla]

Thank you

[Freezingvettes99]

The older open type hold better, the change was due to safety concerns I believe. The older type are crazy expensive as well.

[Capparezza]

I can confirm what @Freezingvettes99 said, the older magnets are a bit stronger. I have both here for comparison. So if you are building longer consists you would be better off using the old magnets (or using a completely different method for linkage at all).

However, as has been stated, you can use both at the same time without any problems.

[XG BC]

if you have a longer train you could also just put some 1×2 tiles on the studs of the new style magnets.

XG BC

[Duq]

The magnets are probably equal in strength but because of the casing they're kept a little further apart.

I've never had a problem connecting old and new. The only problem I've had is connecting new and new.... I regularly have magnets that refuse to turn inside their housing, resulting in a very weak coupling. After a few attempts they'll eventually turn the right way around but it's annoying. Fast forward in this video to 8:00 to see what I mean:

 

 

[dr_spock]

I flick the new coupler magnet enclosure with my finger when they don't connect strongly.  Some times that moves the magnet inside around enough for a good connection.  Opposite poles attract?

 

 

[Toastie]

53 minutes ago, dr_spock said:

Opposite poles attract?

They sure do (and this is the only way to couple them). These are dipole magnets - with a North and South pole. I have the feeling, the magnets inside the casing do not flip that freely and they may actually temporarily be geometrically "locked" in a wrong position. Repeatedly moving two new couplings to and from usually breaks that lock. The old magnets were allowed to rotate freely around their main magnetic axis - so there was no such issue.

With regard to coupling strength: That scales non-linearly with distance between magnet surfaces: Small distance is tolerable (as in the new encased magnets). So putting an ABS barrier between them makes things less strong, depending on the thickness = distance.

Best
Thorsten  

[Roadmonkeytj]

I actually have noticed in some of the new magnets in sealed housings the polarity is fixed and I have a couple cars that have to be oriented a certain way to connect to the train otherwise they just sit on the track 

[Toxic43]

I don't have any of the old kind, but the new kind are not great I have to say. I have a double set of the 10233 Horizon Express. It is so heavy that to move at more than a crawl I modified the front engine to have two motors. It is now so powerful that it can overcome the magnets and break away from the train. I have to really feather the throttle to get it to pull away without breaking free. I have used the 1x2 plate method with success, however the little one loves to separate the trains and mix consists. Bit of frustration on his part when he can't separate the carriages. It's bad enough that the carriages jacobs bogies! And I want to put another one in the middle, linking all 4 together! I must be crazy. But anything for less magnet couplings right?

[Toastie]

12 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

I actually have noticed in some of the new magnets in sealed housings the polarity is fixed and I have a couple cars that have to be oriented a certain way to connect to the train otherwise they just sit on the track 

Really? I wasn't aware of that (I am not too much into the recent train stuff from TLG). But: Back to the roots I guess. Are they also color coded as they were in the blue/early gray era?

Best
Thorsten 

[Matt Dawson]

18 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

I actually have noticed in some of the new magnets in sealed housings the polarity is fixed and I have a couple cars that have to be oriented a certain way to connect to the train otherwise they just sit on the track 

This isn't actually true. The magnets are free to move but can get stuck as there's not much room inside the coupler housing. 

[Roadmonkeytj]

5 hours ago, Toastie said:

Really? I wasn't aware of that (I am not too much into the recent train stuff from TLG). But: Back to the roots I guess. Are they also color coded as they were in the blue/early gray era?

Best
Thorsten 

The ones I have are not coded but you don't "feel" the click when you place the car turn it around and it does.  I've had to swap some couplings around because of this so cars face the right way

20 minutes ago, Matt Dawson said:

This isn't actually true. The magnets are free to move but can get stuck as there's not much room inside the coupler housing. 

So it's a QC issue with the interior of the molded coupler? 

[pirzyk]

I sometimes have to rotate two traincars along the coupler axis to get the re-orientation of the magnets.  Once that is done, they seem to stay together unless my train is really, really long (say 15+ cars).  Then I use rare earth magnets to augment the power.

[Toastie]

22 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

So it's a QC issue with the interior of the molded coupler? 

Don't think so. Maybe carefully knocking them with lets say the hand piece of a screw driver "loosens" the locking?  

[Duq]

1 hour ago, Toastie said:

Don't think so. Maybe carefully knocking them with lets say the hand piece of a screw driver "loosens" the locking?  

To me that means there is a design and/or QC issue. The turning of the magnet is essential to the proper functioning so if that doesn't work reliably there's a problem.

 

[Matt Dawson]

9 hours ago, Duq said:

To me that means there is a design and/or QC issue. The turning of the magnet is essential to the proper functioning so if that doesn't work reliably there's a problem.

I'd personally say there's not quite enough room inside for the disc shaped magnet. The problem seems to be (IMHO) that there's an issue with coupler depth meaning it gets stuck where the reinforcement for the mounting points are.

[Toastie]

21 hours ago, Duq said:

To me that means there is a design and/or QC issue

Hmmmm

Are we going to sue them (as in Ghostbusters, when Peck shows up in the fire station pi**ing off Pete?)?

Just kidding …

Best
Thorsten 

[dr_spock]

One way to find out is to cut open a new coupler and see what's inside.  Has anyone done that before or willing to make the sacrifice?

 

On 3/7/2019 at 6:34 AM, Toxic43 said:

I don't have any of the old kind, but the new kind are not great I have to say. I have a double set of the 10233 Horizon Express. It is so heavy that to move at more than a crawl I modified the front engine to have two motors. It is now so powerful that it can overcome the magnets and break away from the train. I have to really feather the throttle to get it to pull away without breaking free. I have used the 1x2 plate method with success, however the little one loves to separate the trains and mix consists. Bit of frustration on his part when he can't separate the carriages. It's bad enough that the carriages jacobs bogies! And I want to put another one in the middle, linking all 4 together! I must be crazy. But anything for less magnet couplings right?

It would look more prototype with the jacob bogie in the middle than those 2 bogies with couplers.  The 2 extra bogie wheels can be re-used to replace bogie with the Technic axles on the back engine.  This will further reduce rolling friction to that you could pull the train set with one PF train motor on level tracks.

 

[XG BC]

i think the real train (tgv sud est) had just jacob boogies ecxept the front and back "locomotives". this was done originally to save weight so the train could go faster and to reduce maintenance costs.

XG BC

[Toxic43]

On 3/10/2019 at 4:17 PM, dr_spock said:

It would look more prototype with the jacob bogie in the middle than those 2 bogies with couplers.  The 2 extra bogie wheels can be re-used to replace bogie with the Technic axles on the back engine.  This will further reduce rolling friction to that you could pull the train set with one PF train motor on level tracks.

 

Yes, this is what I have planned. I just need to find out what pieces I need to get from Bricklink in order to build another jacobs bogie and extend the skirts under the carriages. If anyone has done this and has a list I'd appreciate the help! Anything to get away from more magnets on this already, very, heavy train.