Which functions does a Supercar need?

[jorgeopesi]

We are having a great year for Lego supercars and the question is simple but have many answers. Manual gearbox with same speeds than the real car?, RC more important that a gearbox?, motorized functions?, etc, what do you think?. In my case I always build real gearboxes and now I don´t need to build RC cars because in my opinion they are too heavy to be funny maybe put a motor to show the gearbox working would be enough for me. Talking about singular doors and spoilers I consider good if they are motorized.

[Meatman]

This is purely my opinion but I think adding RC to large Lego cars is kind of a waste. The performance just isn't there, especially when they have working gearboxes, you can't really tell anything is happening because they are so slow from all of the weight. When I think of a Lego supercar, I think of of a car like the Kuipers concept car or new predator. I prefer models that have a more intelligent build behind them that look good and solid to ones that move around a bit and have some off the wall functions using a million pieces.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Meatman

[Lipko]

I prefer manual car models as well. It should have a gearbox though I'm not really interested in realistic ratios as it doesn't add any value for me (I can't detect with my eye if the fake engine doesn't have perfect revolutions). Different ratios in the proper order/pattern, that's enough.

The number of gears isn't important for me either, a 6-speed gearbox is usually too wide if you don't use a remote gearbox, but most remote gearboxes I've seen so far are unreliable (I remember you yourself admitted that the gearbox in the F40 and Tyler Reid's gearboxes are somewhat unreliable/hard to switch/easy to engage two speeds at once or something like that). Paul's and Nathanael's seems to be pretty good, though they are 4-speed.

Yes, reliable, as fool-proof as possible model making is the most basic "standard" for me.

I am not sorry for not having a reverse speed either (I can't see the turning direction by the pistons..).

A suspension of some kind is a must for me too even though it's not really necessary. Same goes for cockpit steering wheel.

And hand of god steering, because it's a toy after all, and I do play a bit with the cars I build.

A suspension requires a stiff chassis and I'm quite anal about that one, though most Lego supercars fail with that (seeing the chassis twist when the suspension feature is shown and body parts deforming because of the soft structure is a very disappointing thing for me).

I'm experimenting with a manual sequential remote 4-speed gearbox at the moment, I think the time has come to make reliable, neat, fully studless sequential gearboxes with the new gearbox parts that have only 3 stages, not that stupid 5 stage. My English is failing me tonight

Edited March 13, 2015 by Lipko

[jorgeopesi]

You are right Lipko the Tyler style is not very reliable , I suppose I use it to have a lower gearbox lever and more real seats. I didn´t speak about steering, chassis or suspension but they are good contributions too, even we can talk about angles in wheels, Lipko my English fails every night and day .

[Lipko]

I think the Tyler style too can be more reliable with the new gearbox element. I don't own any of those yet, I hope they are as good as Paul says.

[Paul Boratko]

Paul's and Nathanael's seems to be pretty good, though they are 4-speed.

Nathanael's new car is actually a 5+R gearbox using the gear configuration from the Vampire GT and Phantasm Twin Turbo where the reverse gear is below the 5th gear.. The genius behind his changing mechanism probably couldn't have been executed without cleverly positioning the gearbox vertically like he did..

I too have been working off and on trying to design a reliable sequential gearbox that switches gears up by pulling a lever back and gearing down by pushing it forward using LBG shocks instead of rubberbands,, I also would like in the future to add a hidden button mechanism in the back of a car where you push a button to select a gear... Like 5 different buttons where you push one button on the far left for first and then when you push the 2nd gear button next to it, the 1st gear button pops up, or if you press th 5th gear button, the first would pop up, but no 2 buttons can be pressed at the same time... Just ideas at this point...

The reason why I would like to do some type of hidden button system that is easy to access is that sometimes it is hard to get into the small area to change the gears... I have somewhat large hands..

Edited March 13, 2015 by Paul Boratko

[jorgeopesi]

I have the perfect solution for large hands.... convertible cars .

[Lipko]

Nathanael's new car is actually a 5+R gearbox using the gear configuration from the Vampire GT and Phantasm Twin Turbo where the reverse gear is below the 5th gear.. The genius behind his changing mechanism probably couldn't have been executed without cleverly positioning the gearbox vertically like he did..

Sorry, I don't know why I remembered 4 speeds.

[Jeroen Ottens]

Lego supercar features:

Manual, no PF

Steering (HoG + working steering wheel), bonuspoints for Ackermann, kingpin inclination, minimal scrub radius, caster, etc.

Suspension on all wheels

Doors & bonnets can open, bonuspoints for convertable roof and odd moving doors like gullwing, scissor, etc.

Smooth flowing lines that define the body

Not based on actual model, bonuspoints if it doesn't resemble any real car

Working gearbox, 5+R, bonuspoints for innovative gearshift mechanisms

Surprise feature

[brunojj1]

Technic Supercars 8865 + 8880 were the ultimate flagship sets when I was a child, I first think of them. What did they have compared to the requirements we are talking now? Gearbox, steering, piston engine. But the definition what a supercar is or what it should be is not religious. I prefer a radical powered version of a Lego supercar because it was my dream as a child to get my Lego stuff remote controlled. The show effect on my opinion is bigger, more interesting to design and more fun to play with. Look for example at Madoca´s creations, same style. But I have to state clearly - this is my personal taste. So good we have so many different parts and options nowadays! I like all kind of supercars, especially if they show something new.

[Sariel]

I, for example, like non-motorized and motorized supercars alike, I think each category comes with its own unique challenges and rewards. It's true that performance of large motorized supercars is poor, but then performance of non-motorized ones is, well, nonexistent. I build to play with the stuff I made, so I would feel bad if I couldn't drive a model around the room after all the effort that went into it. But that's just me.

I just wanted to add that over time my focus when building shifted towards accurate looks, and with this in mind I could accept a supercar without traditional Lego piston engine. I would be happy to see a realistic model of the real engine instead, with no moving parts, but looking like the real thing. I'm slowly starting to build Ferrari Fiorano now, and I have a strong feeling that rather than put oversized and naked Lego V12 somewhere, it would be much more interesting to model this accurately:

[jorgeopesi]

I agree with Sariel in relation to the engine, I lost hours and room trying to put the classic lego engine, many times even aesthetics has suffered, Brunojj1 has done very well. I had used those same engines but just in machinery and trucks. I also think that a supercar is 80% the bodywork, if it likes, no matter what is inside for most people.

[brunojj1]

I, for example, like non-motorized and motorized supercars alike, I think each category comes with its own unique challenges and rewards. It's true that performance of large motorized supercars is poor, but then performance of non-motorized ones is, well, nonexistent. I build to play with the stuff I made, so I would feel bad if I couldn't drive a model around the room after all the effort that went into it. But that's just me.

I just wanted to add that over time my focus when building shifted towards accurate looks, and with this in mind I could accept a supercar without traditional Lego piston engine. I would be happy to see a realistic model of the real engine instead, with no moving parts, but looking like the real thing. I'm slowly starting to build Ferrari Fiorano now, and I have a strong feeling that rather than put oversized and naked Lego V12 somewhere, it would be much more interesting to model this accurately:

I´m happy you made this choice for your project! So after your Enzo there would be a nice alternative to the official set. I remembered by the way my F50 from my earlier days and the Lego V12 I had put in ther WITHOUT having it even connected, just as a real fake fake

Edited March 14, 2015 by brunojj1

[DrJB]

You threw me off for a minute. I think you meant: What functions are needed in a supercar?

That said, for me it as simple as replicating as much as possible of the real life features: Indepenedent suspension on all wheels, Gearbox with remote linkages, 'fancy' suspension angles (ackerman, scrub radius, ...), boxer engine (too tired of the V-10). Anything you can dream up.

[Captainowie]

Disclaimer: I don't have a great deal of interest in cars, either real or LEGO, so what follows is pure speculation, and may turn out to be completely untrue. I will present things as fact, so that I don't have to append "or this is how it seems to me" to everything.

What we're really trying to do here is define the word 'supercar'. We're looking for a list of things that we can compare to any given model and say "Yes, that model has all the things on the list, that's a supercar" or "No, that model doesn't have X feature, it's not a supercar".

I think it's instructive to look at what has happened to the term in the realm of real cars. Originally, the term referred to a vehicle that was state-of-the-art. A car that pushed back the boundaries of what was possible with the technology of the time. Over time, the tag of 'supercar' became somewhat watered down (I can see how that happened. Car A breaks new ground and is rightfully called a supercar. Car B, coming somewhat later, has the same features as car A, so is also called a supercar, despite the fact that there's nothing really new about it.) so that now it means "A very high performance car". We now have a new term, 'hypercar', used to describe vehicles that are genuinely as good as it's possible to get. Presumably the current range of hypercars will fall behind the state-of-the-art and we'll need a new term - ultracar, anyone?

So how does this apply to LEGO cars? Well, the original supercars all represented the pinnacle of what could be achieved with the parts of their era. The first one doesn't even have suspension (well, it does, but it's only simulated - there's no actual movement) or a differential. Is it fair to no longer call it a supercar? There are things proposed above that would rule out even the venerable 8880 as a supercar.

So, by trying to come up with a list of features that makes a supercar, we're moving the term away from meaning 'state-of-the-art', and more towards 'a very high performance car', and I'm not sure we want to do that (well, it's going to happen anyway, what I'm saying is that we probably don't want to accelerate it). Suppose we decide that a supercar needs to have X feature, that currently takes many parts and is very tricky to get right. Then LEGO introduces a part (or several) that makes X feature absurdly easy to do. Suppose this happens for most of the features on the list - it's certainly happened for just about everything that makes 853 special, there's no reason to believe it won't happen for current models. Then anybody can slap together something and call it a supercar.

In conclusion, I think trying to nail down a set of strict criteria is inherently a bad idea.

Owen.

[Thirdwigg]

I think they should have four doors.

[jorgeopesi]

Well, supercar or car are the same for me building with Lego. Another rarity is that I always want the point of rotation of the steering inside the wheel so I usually use 8448 hubs on rear-wheel drive cars and 8880 wheels and parts on AWD cars, I guess I pretend not to have to build huge fenders. I would have to prove who is the real difference between pieces, I use very old pieces.

[Lakop]

For me RC is not required for drive in these models. Its about functions, looks, styling and the different ways parts are used. RC can be used to activate functions (ie: folding roof).

H

[Erik Leppen]

I'm with Owen on this one. A Lego car is a supercar if it looks like a supercar. There may be a sub class of Lego supercars that have a gearbox, but why would a car without gearbox necessarily be not a supercar?

[Epic Technic]

I'm with Owen on this one. A Lego car is a supercar if it looks like a supercar. There may be a sub class of Lego supercars that have a gearbox, but why would a car without gearbox necessarily be not a supercar?

I think that you are completely correct Erik Leppen, supercars DON'T need a gearbox! You could build an electric car like a Tesla or a hybrid like the Koenigsegg Regera, these both don't have gearboxes.

[__________________________]

I prefer RC supercars with simple gearboxes (usually 2 or 3 speed).