New Cargo Train 60052 not working

[lightningtiger]

A thought has just come to my mind......good old tin foil.....a tiny ball of it acting as connector between terminal and Duracell battery.....just a thought (it would have to be tiny as too much you would short out the metal cased Duracell battery (cell....sorry it's the tech in me ).

[Brickthus]

Basic at 1.2V you are already down to 80% of operating voltage and by the time you are down to less than 70%......it's slow going to a point of dead stop.

I take the point you are making about lower voltage but an explanation might be beneficial

A dc motor like the PF motors would have a speed proportional to voltage. This is not quite the case with Pulse Width Modulation from the IR Receiver or LiPo battery as the PWM gives better torque at low speeds.

The electrical power is proportional to the square of the voltage, so 7.2V (6x1.2V) gives 5184, 7.4V (2x3.7V in the LiPo) gives 5476 and 9.0V (6x1.5V) gives 8100, each divided by the nominal resistance of the motor windings. On that basis I had wondered whether the LiPo at 5476 would be able to power models as well as a battery box of 6x1.5V cells at 8100, given that the LiPo's number is 0.676 times that of the 1.5V AA cells. For a train it may be that the maximum speed is lower with the LiPo but trains that operate at the full 9.0V (or 9.15V with very fresh cells) could easily derail on the sharp corners. This means full speed is not used so often (by AFOLs; I accept that children would like to see how fast the train goes!) and hence the LiPo's current advantage (800mA cut-out limit) shines through (till you overload it with a big heavy train!). The internal resistance of ordinary Alkaline cells means they struggle to deliver the current whereas the LiPo has a low internal resistance. I have previously given reluctant Duracell cells a brief short circuit through a multimeter on the 10-amp setting to see the current rise but this is not generally recommended.

Then there is the cell/battery discharge characteristic to consider. Alkaline cells reduce in voltage fairly linearly till they reach about 1.35V (typical for Duracell), at which point they are "flat" and can no longer deliver the current. 6x1.35V = 8.1V, which is considerably higher than 7.2V or 7.4V! This means a lower voltage does not necessarily mean the train goes slower. The motor characteristics also matter. Typical LEGO motor operation for 9V motors starts at 3-4V because they hardly move below that; the product is designed to power models, so the outputs from 9V train controller and the PWM from PF parts tend to fit that range. The most efficient use of most dc motors is where the current is equal to twice the no-load current. This may be easier to measure using a steady 9.0V than with a variable voltage or PWM scheme! If the model goes slow, change or charge the batteries or add more motors in parallel.

Mark

[The Fezter]

Duracell are the only batteries that are currently not working in the battery boxes. Only recent problem. Any other battery is fine

[Heavy2600]

I use only Duracell with no problems. I have 5 battery boxes. I recently switched to Eneloop. I thought the problem was described as too small hole for the positive connector. I just compared an Energizer, Duracell, and Eneloop. Energizer has the largest positive connector. Large as in fat/wide and would have the problem fitting through the connector hole. I think it's more likely a bad batch or manufacturing error.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Heavy2600

[v6TransAM]

Duracell are the only batteries that are currently not working in the battery boxes. Only recent problem. Any other battery is fine

Lie detector alert!!!!!

My sons 60052 cargo train battery box would not work with Eneloops when we put it together on Christmas, didn't waste my time trying anything else since this was like time number 5 now of the poorly fitting battery box. This is not a "recent" problem either.

I threw the box on my shelf and used an already modified one. Lego shop employee or not, please do not spread false information.

Lego redesigning the box would be a great solution and would only need a mold fix to accomplish, not even a new mold since it would be taking away from the area.

Of course 5 minutes and a couple of drill bits later and you will never have the problem again.....

Edited January 25, 2015 by v6TransAM

[detjensrobert]

Seems to me that the battery boxes might be made in different batches with differing hole sizes.

[The Fezter]

Lie detector alert!!!!!

My sons 60052 cargo train battery box would not work with Eneloops when we put it together on Christmas, didn't waste my time trying anything else since this was like time number 5 now of the poorly fitting battery box. This is not a "recent" problem either.

I threw the box on my shelf and used an already modified one. Lego shop employee or not, please do not spread false information.

Lego redesigning the box would be a great solution and would only need a mold fix to accomplish, not even a new mold since it would be taking away from the area.

Of course 5 minutes and a couple of drill bits later and you will never have the problem again.....

Only saying what I've been told. Was only trying to help. If my higher ups are telling me the wrong thing then I shall pass it on.

[Crazywater]

Got 60052 at Christmas and 60051 a few days later. Duracells worked in both battery boxes without issue.

[jtlan]

Lego redesigning the box would be a great solution and would only need a mold fix to accomplish, not even a new mold since it would be taking away from the area.

Actually, cutting away from the mold would add plastic (since the mold is a negative of the part).

[v6TransAM]

Actually, cutting away from the mold would add plastic (since the mold is a negative of the part).

Your right, I was thinking backwards on that one.

Batteries are like oil filters, most get made by a few companies and its whoever has the best deal/price, so every so often the cases change a little and the points/ends change a little.

(I've had the issue personally with Energizer, Duracell, Eveready, cheapie knock off's and Eneloops.) (sidenote: depending on older/newer batteries some would work some would not)

That aside, I have a near 2 and a near 5 yr olds and I go thru lots of toys/batteries/rechargeables/etc. Compared to every other toy they have, the Lego battery box has the smallest holes for contact and is the only one that is finicky ironically

[dr_spock]

YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary. Even the same brand of batteries may have production or design changes depending when you bought them or which plant/country they were made in.

A thought has just come to my mind......good old tin foil.....a tiny ball of it acting as connector between terminal and Duracell battery.....just a thought (it would have to be tiny as too much you would short out the metal cased Duracell battery (cell....sorry it's the tech in me ).

You could also "raise up" the contact with solder. It wouldn't get lost like tin balls.

[klectrains]

Having PF problems.....battery box led is green.....IR receiver led is green......try to use remote and green led flashes nut no power to wheel set.......if I plug wheel set into battery back directly, wheel set runs fine.....any suggestion?

[v6TransAM]

Make sure remote and receiver are on the same channel. There are 4 positions.

They would both need to be on the same position, i.e. #1 would be at the top on receiver and remote and #4 would be all the way at the bottom.

Also have some more troubleshooting on lego.com for PF stuff.

Post anymore issues here as well and we can try and help.

[Dutchiedoughnut]

Since the IR receiver is flashing, you most likely have the correct channel. Did you try both control dials on the controller? Also, check that the cable from the motor is placed correctly on the receiver. If its slightly skewed etc, then there is no electrical connection.