Juggernaut (turbo tank) wheels

[Werlu Ulcur]

I don't even have the set but I'm already thinking about the wheels...

I'm going to get myself a #8098, maybe even this year - in theory I'm not supposed to spend on toys anymore until next year, but the Force is strong and the meat is weak, so you get the idea . From the research I've done, the #8098 is supposedly the A5 Juggernaut, while the #7261 should be the A6 Juggernaut. According to the pics I've seen on Wookieepedia, the #8098 has the more "realistic" wheels:

The #7261 isn't a very faithful copy in the rubber department:

Even though the #8098 has the more faithful wheels, in my eyes the wheels on the #7261 look more beefy, what I would expect on a "heavy duty" vehicle like the Juggernaut. The #8098's wheels look (again, in my eyes) like something that came from a moon rover buggy. Would it be possible for me to swap the stock wheels with something like the wheels of the #7261? Ideally I was thinking of something like this:

Being new to Lego I don't have the foggiest idea how standardized are Lego's parts, so would it be possible to use on the #8098 any wheel set other then the stock wheels ?

[382nd Legionnaire]

Lego doesn't really care about size discrepancies from a set to the real model. Oh and the wheels you proposed: the real Juggernaut in SW doesn't have rubber tires. t personally think the wheels are a good size. About 2 minifigs in length.

[Werlu Ulcur]

No, the size of the stock wheels is perfectly fine, they don't need to be wider, I just would like them to have more meat in the threads.

[mikey]

...

Being new to Lego I don't have the foggiest idea how standardized are Lego's parts, so would it be possible to use on the #8098 any wheel set other then the stock wheels ?

I am not familiar with either of these sets, but, your question is easily answered. You will be able to modify the set to have the wheels you feel look better. Depending on how the original wheels are connected to the model, you may need to change more than just the wheels - you might need to modify how they are mounted. All Lego parts are designed to work with each other - as a 'system'. The building instructions are really just a guide, and at any point you are free to improve upon the set design.

[Fallenangel]

The #7261 isn't a very faithful copy in the rubber department:

[snip -Illustrations from the Cross-Sections are worthless if you want a ‘faithful’ representation. Use screen captures instead.]

[snip]

Even though the #8098 has the more faithful wheels, in my eyes the wheels on the #7261 look more beefy, what I would expect on a "heavy duty" vehicle like the Juggernaut. The #8098's wheels look (again, in my eyes) like something that came from a moon rover buggy. Would it be possible for me to swap the stock wheels with something like the wheels of the #7261? Ideally I was thinking of something like this:

[snip]

The wheels are the same size on both renditions. Looking at the source material, the issue isn't with the wheels, but with the scrawny axles they are connected to. The wheels are designed such that the set can make turns, but aesthetics are compromised as a result. Personally I would scrap the entire Technic bit and construct a solid, brickbuilt chassis on which to attach the wheels, though given your inexperience with LEGO I would recommend you spend a few more months with sets and get used to the idea before you leap ahead and start looking to modify them.

[382nd Legionnaire]

If you want to add width to the wheels, its pretty easy if you have the funds. the wheels are actually made up of 2 smaller wheels bound together.

[Fallenangel]

If you want to add width to the wheels, its pretty easy if you have the funds. the wheels are actually made up of 2 smaller wheels bound together.

It's not that the wheels aren't wide enough; it's that there isn't enough between them. If only the wheels are replaced, they're going to stick out and make the whole thing look even more awkward.

EDIT: To illustrate my point, consider Anio's Juggernaut. Anio uses the same wheels, but the connection between them is much more fleshed out, resulting in a more convincing overall image in comparison to either set.

Edited November 24, 2011 by fallenangel309

[KimT]

Sunnyx did a really great version which had a neat wheel design IMO.

Link¨

Plus this one from Saint which is quite impressive, especially the wheel design.

Link

[Werlu Ulcur]

THIS is what I was looking for!

sunnyx fixed what I thought was wrong, the skinny wheels with some bigger rubber. But like fallenangel said, beefy wheels like that would demand a more sturdier and beefier undercarriage too. I don't think you would have to go as big and large as sunnyx did in his MOD, but something would have to be added to the undercarriage to make it look more brawny.

Saint also got the exact look I am aiming for with this pic:

The tank looks MUCH more balanced and proportional now, with wheels that look capable of lugging all that mass around. From this pic, the undercarriage isn't an issue, and if possible I would go leaner on the undercarriage then both sunnyx and Saint went on their models. But if I understood correctly, from what you guys are saying basically the only way to use fatter wheels would be to build a new undercarriage?

What I was looking for right now was only a wheel swap, since I don't have the experience and much less the parts to try to build a new undercarriage. And being honest, those wiggly wheels because of the Technic independent suspension system for each wheel look pretty appealing to me .

[Fallenangel]

sunnyx fixed what I thought was wrong, the skinny wheels with some bigger rubber. But like fallenangel said, beefy wheels like that would demand a more sturdier and beefier undercarriage too. I don't think you would have to go as big and large as sunnyx did in his MOD, but something would have to be added to the undercarriage to make it look more brawny.

Saint also got the exact look I am aiming for with this pic:

[snip]

I'm saying that the issue isn't in the width of the wheels, but the undercarriage. I doubt that using the tires sunnyx used on his Juggernaut will make 8098 appear bulkier because the suspension still appears skimpy. Rather than changing the wheels, one needs to consider the solid structure between them.

And Saint's is not only significantly larger than 8098, but scratchbuilt. Wheels that size would definitely not work on your model.

The wheels on 8098 are attached via a Technic pin like any other wheel; replacing them is only a matter of finding different wheels. Smaller hubs may help as well.

[Werlu Ulcur]

I understood what you said about he undercarriage, but as I said, a little more rubber on the threads would definitively improve the looks of the vehicle in my eyes. Ideally I would also bulk-up the undercarriage (not too much though), but if you look at Saint's pic you don't even see the undercarriage because of the fatter tires. And from that side the model looks friggintastic.

Another point to consider is that if you decrease the ground clearance of the undercarriage the vehicle will not be agile, and that's what I think Lego was aiming at, to make the tank look big but fast. If you look from the front or rear of all the vehicles cited before, and specially this pic from Anio, you have the impression that it's a big and massive vehicle, but not very agile - it almost looks to me like a locomotive. I understand that these are all MOC/MOD models, so there's a lot of building issues here (you do what you can do), but if possible I would rather have the undercarriage a bit more lean.

That's why I feel that that a tire swap (not even the whole wheel) would improve the looks quite a deal.

[Werlu Ulcur]

This afternoon I found a to-good-to-pass-up opportunity (locally) on a #8098 and ordered one . If everything works out, it should be here by next week, so now I can "officially" start thinking about the wheel improvement.

I've done some more research on BL and found out that the wheels used on the tank are made up of "Dark Bluish Gray Wheel 81.6 x 15 Motorcycle", each tank wheel being two of these side by side with a hubcap. Somebody up above mentioned Technic parts, so I went through some Technic sets and found all these sets that use this wheel+tire:

The tire has the same diameter as the motorcycle wheel used on the tank, so 5 of these (on each side) would in theory fit side by side. From the pics I've found from downloaded .pdf instructions for these Technic sets, the axles used also seem to be the same size. The idea would be to use these wheels on the stock axles and then cover the wheels with the stock hubcaps - from the #8098's instructions the hubcaps seem to be locked in place by the axle and not the wheels, so I think I would be able to use the regular hubcaps.

But this is all assumption, from looking at pictures . Do you guys think these wheels would fit on the tank? My idea was to first get 5 pairs of these wheels and then (if they worked basically as a simple swap) I would start thinking about beefing up the undercarriage. But if possible, I would like to hear if you guys think this is really feasible. If it's plain nonsense I won't waste good money on the wheels.

[Werlu Ulcur]

Can anybody comment on that?